'Children and their Families; Contact, Rights & Welfare'

[Berzerker]

That's the nature of debate, so sorry

[blackice]

So MichaeltheGreat you think all the cost, grief and child suicides plus all the pain and anger children face today is ok? I doubt you will ever answer that question, you have not yet...

An obvious to any Disney world life time member but you, would say the court system is bias. God sakes man even the judges and lawyers do...I will add most if not all fem-nazi supporters such as yourself, completely ignore the child's side and devistation in debates like this. They simply do not want to admit, just like yourself that the children are being harmed and the ultimate victims for the gender power stuggle. As long as you get that point accross that generations long past women suffered, it does not matter who is killed in the crossfire.

You see Michel that is the difference between hardcore women's groups and mens groups. if you have not noticed, not likely though...Women's groups talk of possesion, womens rights, them power and how bad it was.. Men's groups talk of loss of possesions, loss of rights and CHILDENS RIGHTS and CHILDREN"S NEEDS and the HARM DONE TO THE CHILDREN by the courts. You up to speed yet Micheal?

I really can not wait to see you say that to your grandchildren when you too are denied access to them....

I mean MichaeltheGreat you could put more thought into this, well more than it takes to wipe your a$$ I mean.

Although most men still do less housework than their wives, that gap has been halved since the 1960s. Today, 49 percent of couples say they share child care equally, compared with 25 percent in 1985. Men's greater involvement at home is good for their relationships with their spouses, and also good for their children. Hands-on fathers make better parents than men who let their wives do all the nurturing and child care. They raise sons who are more expressive and daughters who are more likely to do well in school -- especially in math and science.

Reading old women's lib magazines are we? Where did you get your information from Rufus T. Firefly? Women do twice as much as men? Ok back to the year 2003...Come on man keep up, hey here is one for you how many dads work from home now and raise the kids? No don't look in the 50-70's magazines for that answer...

No one has yet to address the fact it is the children suffering the most with these court's.

Drake Tungsten to a simpleton maybe...

[Rufus T. Firefly]

blackice - the quotation in your last post never appaeared in any of mine; stop putting words in my mouth. The research I refer to was current, not 30 years old, and out of academic journals, not magazines.

Berzerker - stay-at-home mom's may not put in an eight-hour day, in the strict sense. On the other hand, they don't clock out at 5 pm, and they don't tend to get weekends off. That's why stats continue to show that wives spend more hours/week working than husbands, and that husbands have more leisure time than wives. As for the death info, it really is interesting and corollates with another fun fact: on the whole, men who divorce find that their income levels tend to rise but they report a decline in overall quality of life; women who divorce, by contrast, find that their income levels tend to fall but report a higher overall quality of life.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's why stats continue to show that wives spend more hours/week working than husbands, and that husbands have more leisure time than wives.

Not necessarily equivalent to 'more labour', Rufus.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Not necessarily equivalent to 'more labour', Rufus.

The way I'm using it, it is. You get what I mean here, right? What phrase would you use?

[Shi Huangdi]

"An obvious to any Disney world life time member but you, "

Take it easy man, calm down.

"So your argument seems to be that even though men happily foist the kids off on their wives when married, they should lay proud claim to them 50% of the time when they're divorced. Riiiight."

If the father wants to get more involved at any point why is that a bad thing?

[Ben Kenobi]

What phrase would you use?

The phrasing is fine, you just have to consider efficiency. If one person works 8 hrs, while another finishes the same amount of work in 6 hrs, your scale would say that the person who worked 8 hrs did more work than the person who worked for 6 hrs.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"So your argument seems to be that even though men happily foist the kids off on their wives when married, they should lay proud claim to them 50% of the time when they're divorced. Riiiight."

If the father wants to get more involved at any point why is that a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing. I haven't really stated my position in this thread, so here it is: child custody should always be handled case by case, and not subject to a judicially-proscribed ratio like the 50-50 described in the article. But if it is going to be determined by a preset ratio, that ratio should reflect the social division of childcare within marriage, and that division isn't 50-50, even in households where both spouses work full-time.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


The phrasing is fine, you just have to consider efficiency. If one person works 8 hrs, while another finishes the same amount of work in 6 hrs, your scale would say that the person who worked 8 hrs did more work than the person who worked for 6 hrs.

Fair enough. I know of no study that accounts for efficiency, so I can't speak to that. On the other hand, the studies I've seen treat all time men spend at their jobs as "working" -- which may be true of the coal miners Berzerker mentions, but any of us with an internet connection at work should be laughing at that notion. But you make a good point.

[Nubclear]

Two dollars an hour.

What?

[Berzerker]

Rufus -

stay-at-home mom's may not put in an eight-hour day, in the strict sense. On the other hand, they don't clock out at 5 pm, and they don't tend to get weekends off. That's why stats continue to show that wives spend more hours/week working than husbands, and that husbands have more leisure time than wives.

Husbands get weekends off? Seems to me that's when the more difficult chores are done. Where are these stats you keep citing? And why is this even relevant? Do (or should) judges actually compile a tally of hours spent laboring for the family when deciding on custody rights with the loser getting shafted?

As for the death info, it really is interesting and corollates with another fun fact: on the whole, men who divorce find that their income levels tend to rise but they report a decline in overall quality of life; women who divorce, by contrast, find that their income levels tend to fall but report a higher overall quality of life.

How can that be when the woman no longer has help with income (does alimony make up for it) or taking care of the kids? Why do poverty stats show that households headed by single women are the most likely to be in poverty? Is that a "quality of life" category? Also, you say the quality of life of divorced men declines, is that because men lose their families including custody rights adding even more stress to their lives? And you ignored my point about life expectancy and overall labor of both men and women, if women really labored more, wouldn't we see that wrt life expectancy?

I'd say your argument may have been valid in more "primitive" times when women didn't have the help of modern appliances and washing clothes was done by hand, etc., but as we see the quality of life improve thanks to technological advancements, household labor becomes less strenuous and life expectancy for women improving faster than men. Of course, women don't die in childbirth as much either so there are many variables involved, too many to make blanket statements as you've done with unsourced "stats".

[Drake Tungsten]

On a serious note, god bless stay-at-home moms. They may not be respected in this day and age, but they really do make our world a better place.

[blackice]

Rufus T. Firefly Your right it did not, I do not expect it to either. No that quote is way more recent than your out dated diatribe. Check the dates on your information then check the sources, once done post it for us all to see.

Now as far as your limited exposure to stay at home dads and or fathers in the year 2003 get a grip man where do you get this information. What womans group do you belong to? You are saying that every man in the entire world and or the majority ignore thier children and ignore thier house. Pure BS and I guarante you have absolutly no proof to back your diatribe...

Shi Huangdi I am calm this dolt seems to live in disney world. He simply ignores reality and assumes he can control and dictate his childs direction. I think he should know after his child meets the kids next door at say 3 years old his influence and direct, (control) over his child is set. The child then becomes a person and that person is subject to the same life's errors we all are. That said these laws demean and stiffle his son's ability to raise his child and or have any say in raising his children. That said...He is trolling....

But if it is going to be determined by a preset ratio, that ratio should reflect the social division of childcare within marriage, and that division isn't 50-50, even in households where both spouses work full-time.

You will have a hard time proving that statement with any creadible polls, etc. The most current study tosses your comments out with the dodo bird.

On a serious note, god bless stay-at-home moms.

And god bless stay at home Dads who have even less respect...

Comrade Tassadar let's see you get 200.00 for one child and 600.00 for three right off the top, you get all the money comming into the house, the house, the car, the kids, all the joy of raising the children and watching them grow. All the first's, time of at the park, time off for yourself, freedom to do what you want in the day.

Now how does that compare to the working parent?

Nice benefits too half the pentions, investments free lawyers, free daycare, free welfare, free transportation, free glasses and any other medical you need, support, and the courts on your side.

Not bad if you ask me, you?

[Jon Miller]

I want to be a stay at home husband

to a sugar momma

do physics during the day and not have to worry about all the *****y things that everyone else ahs to

Jon Miller

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by blackice
Shi Huangdi I am calm

Comrade Tassadar let's see you get 200.00 for one child and 600.00 for three right off the top, you get all the money comming into the house, the house, the car, the kids, all the joy of raising the children and watching them grow. All the first's, time of at the park, time off for yourself, freedom to do what you want in the day.

I just read "an hour", so I threw a number out. It was a VERY poor troll but apparently it worked