Do we Americans have to let everything linger? (9th Circuit Court Delays Recall)

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The main reason for changing the voting system was to settle lawsuites filed by leftist groups after the Presidential elections. The leftists claimed the system was biased against them and it is very very difficult to prove a system is not biased. Please note the leftist groups like the ACLU never claimed they could prove the system was biased they simply demanded the state prove it wasn't.

The state agreed to spend truck loads of money on new electronic machines just to avoid the appearance of a bias.

blah, blah, blah blah ....

nice rant..any facts there bucko? It would be nice if these kinds of dribble went out of style.

Maybe it would be best for the state to take over funding of elections from counties, and then equiped all counties in the state with the same machines, to insure that there are no difference in how the votes of individuals are tabulated within the state..thus insuring that all votes be counted equally, as the constitution requires.

Better spend a large amount of money creating a fair and effecitve system of suffrage than to have problems with the carrying out of democratic elections...

Democrats can be racist too.

Yes they can...and the point?

[Japher]

I would not assume racism or a Republican plot. Calfornia is a Democrat controlled state.

Seems to me like people are lumping racism with being Republican...

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
They want the recall delayed until those can be replaced (March).

And I guess it is just a coincidence that March happens to be the Democrat primary election?

This is purely a political move to keep Davis in power.

[GePap]

Originally posted by The diplomat


And I guess it is just a coincidence that March happens to be the Democrat primary election?

This is purely a political move to keep Davis in power.

Do you even read the thread in general? This issue has more than adequtely taken up..keep up.

[Chemical Ollie]

How many recounts will you have this time? How many people with name similar to a felon will be rejected?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
Seems to me like people are lumping racism with being Republican...

I was just talking about my adopted state. While I certainly implied that racism may have been a factor, I didn't say it (though it's certainly the most likely). In re: Cali, I just stuck to what I knew.

Given that, all I've said is that the case has some merit and deserves a hearing. Personally, I think Oerdin is correct. A constituional mandate trumps a concent decree. On the other hand, the 14th Amendment trumps any state constitution, which is why it should be heard by a court.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

OMG the conservatives in this thread are so ****ing stupid.

[Japher]

OMG the conservatives in this thread are so ****ing stupid.

Que? Como?

[Ned]

I think Che and GePap have their facts wrong on the timing of the settlement of the prior case. Here is a quote from the 9th Circus opinion indicating the the settlement permitted elections to be held under the old system until Jan. 1, 2002.

"The Secretary’s decertification rendered most of the underlying issues in Common Cause I moot, except the question of remedy. The Common Cause Plaintiffs had requested that the Votomatic and Pollstar pre-scored punchcard systems be replaced prior to the 2004 primary or general election. On that question, the district court held that it was “plainly feasible for the PPC counties to
convert to ‘other certified voting equipment’ by March 2004.” Order, Common Cause I at 3. The parties then entered into an agreement under which the decertification of the punchcard voting systems would be advanced to March 1, 2004, in time for the next regularly scheduled statewide election. To effectuate the
settlement, the parties submitted to a consent decree embracing the settlement terms, which was approved by the district court. Judgment was entered. No appeal was taken from the Court’s entry of judgment or any order issued in Common Cause I. Since the entry of judgment, primary and general elections were held in 2002, along with numerous local elections."

Plainly, numerous elections were held since the settlement and the scheduled implementation date, Jan. 1, 2004. Without more, it clearly appears like bootstrapping to conclude that the current election is somehow in violation of he consent decree.

[Ned]

Here is the Circus opinion itself.

[GePap]

How are the facts mentioned wrong?

The issue remains as you stated it: the State agreed to decertify the punch-card machines for the March 2004 election and replace them: so the issue then is: well, now this re-call is the next election, and all the reasons for which the state agreed to remove those types of machines are as valid now as they were when the deal was signed.
As for numerous elections: which state-wide elctions have been held since nov. 2002?

[Ned]

BTW, why is this case no res judicata? It is the same case as previously litigated, by he same parties. That case has a consent judgment. The only question should be is whether the current case is in violation of the court order.

Since it plainly is not, there is something fundamentally flawed with this decision from a res judicata point of view.

[HershOstropoler]

****in' hilarious. Can't wait for the courtroom drama. Maybe Arnie could even get a guest appearance in that soap.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Okay, which arm?

Here are the facts. Duval county is controled by the Republicans. The machines in the white districts were properly maintained and cleaned. The machines in the Black districts were not. How could that happen, again, and again, and again, and again, basically for so many elections that the election machines were totally filled with chads?

In both Knox County (TN) and Gwinnett County (GA) the machines do not just "sit" in the district where they are used between elections, they go to a central location (a warehouse in both places) where somebody from the Dept. of Elections comes by and inspects and certifies the machines by the next election. I have no idea (rather, my wife has no idea as she, a regular election worker since 1992, is the one who supplied me with this info)) if the same machines are used in the same districts, time and again.

Going by what you are saying, Che, the machines are just left in the school gym until the next election. Don't people remove the things?

Anyway, could you provide a cite for your statement? Thanks.

[Ned]

GePap, I believe, based the fact that the settlement was entered in 2001 IIRC, that all elections conducted in 2002 were subject to the settlement decree. That includes the election of Gray Davis as governor.