How to End Racism

[David Floyd]

Boris,

Perhaps after the Fall, God made the other people to be like "ordinary humans," with the ability to be wicked, just for the very purpose of creating a diverse gene pool and suitable mates for the descendants of A&E?

Then God is essentially creating sub-humans, whose goal in life is simply to mate with the better species. God would be creating humans who would be unable to make the same decision Adam and Eve made, and creating them for a much different purpose. Is this what you are proposing?

And what do you mean "live like ordinary humans"? You mean, with a sin nature and original sin?

Cali,

Jesus' work here on earth was done, and it was decided by him not to interfere in the natural conclusion to his human experience.

Uh, why? Why would Jesus allow himself to go through a crucifixion for no greater good? Why would God allow it?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Uh, why? Why would Jesus allow himself to go through a crucifixion for no greater good? Why would God allow it?

Part of Jesus' purpose was also to gain the experience of living as a mortal. Gaining this experience qualified him to rule our part of the universe.

[David Floyd]

Part of Jesus' purpose was also to gain the experience of living as a mortal.

Uh, no, actually that's not Biblical.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't know about you Imran, but most of the women I know wouldn't like the 'equality' that would be afforded to them under an Islamic society. And when I mean Islamic, I mean one of those countries like Iran under the 'enlightened' rule of the imams.

I don't know about you, our_man, but most of the women I know wouldn't like the 'equality' that would afforded to them under a Christian society. And when I mean Christian, I mean one of those countries like the Vatican under the 'enlightened' rule of the Pope.

That was easy .

As Ramo stated, three Islamic countries, INCLUDING the two largest (Indonesia and Pakistan) have had women leaders. You cannot say that for the two largest Christian countries (largest meaning population, of course).

I have friends from Malaysia in university. They're basically treated like 2nd class citizens in Malaysia because they are not Muslim. Most of the Malaysian Muslims studying in Ireland are being paid for by their government; non-Muslims for the most part have to pay their own way. And yet they have to come to study here, because some of the higher learning institutes in Malaysia are 'Muslim only' and there are not enough places.

I still struggle to find how religious discrimination = racism. They simply aren't the same thing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why would Jesus allow himself to go through a crucifixion for no greater good? Why would God allow it?

To show that God/Jesus would go through the ultimate sacrifice for humanity (to cleanse the sins of the faithful).

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why would Jesus allow himself to go through a crucifixion for no greater good? Why would God allow it?

To show that God/Jesus would go through the ultimate sacrifice for humanity (to cleanse the sins of the faithful).

The point of the question was why God/Jesus would go through it if cleansing mankind of sins wasn't a factor (hence the entire Original Sin debate).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, the point of my point was that Original Sin is a factor in Christianity . You can't explain it in any other way, IMO.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well, the point of my point was that Original Sin is a factor in Christianity . You can't explain it in any other way, IMO.

Yeah, but that's pointless if one is presupposing Original Sin doesn't exist, which was Cali's position. Saying that Original Sin exists because Original Sin exists is rather circular, ain't it?

DF:

I wouldn't say "subhuman." You say they were denied the same choice A&E had...but aren't we all? As a libertarian, don't you think it's categorically unfair to be sullied with the sin of someone who lived thousands of years ago and whose actions over which you had no control?

Regardless, say God decided, after the Fall, to create a bunch of new people who were capable of wickedness. Maybe he pulled the old rib trick that he did on Adam to make Eve. This time, though, since the material would have come from A&E, it would still be "tainted."

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, but that's pointless if one is presupposing Original Sin doesn't exist, which was Cali's position. Saying that Original Sin exists because Original Sin exists is rather circular, ain't it?

No, I'm saying that in Christianity, Original Sin exists because you can't explain things any other way... which I guess is Floyd's argument.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Uh, no, actually that's not Biblical.

At this point, I'm not trying to be.

[Zero]

A: There are 2 ways

- Promote Interracial orgies.
- Kill everyone except white ppl.

either way there will be no racism.... eventually.

[our_man]

Imran, I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm trying to defend some aspects of Christian society; I'm not. I wouldn't like living under the Pope's thumb either. I'm a good Catholic and all, but even I think some of the ideas he has had recently haven't been wise. An even better argument would have been in the Magdalene Laundries in my own country - these weren't exactly women friendly either. Guess you missed that one, huh?

Imran, if you're so enchanted with the Muslim world, why don't you move there? You seem to be suggesting that women have it far better in the Muslim world than they do in the West; I imagine it would be right up your street.

Both you and Ramo are somehow coming to the conclusion that just because Indonesia and Pakistan have elected women presidents, that they're fairer to women than we are.

Guys, you really need to check your facts. I don't know that much about Indonesia, but women have a pretty hard time in Pakistan.

By the way Imran, sexism isn't racism, but you seemed perfectly willing to pick up on that argument, yet you dismissed religious discrimination as racism. Don't pick battles you can't win, I guess.

Malaysia is a rather unique situation however. There are three distinct ethnic groups; Indians, Chinese and Malays. The Malays are exclusively Muslim, and discriminate against the other groups (who are not Muslim) on both religion and race. The two are linked.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran, if you're so enchanted with the Muslim world, why don't you move there? You seem to be suggesting that women have it far better in the Muslim world than they do in the West; I imagine it would be right up your street.

And this my friends is called jumping to extreme conclusions.

Can you point to any place Ramo or myself said that women are treated better in the Islamic world than in the West? Or were we merely saying that women have it better under the religion of Islam then they have in states like Iran, which the West seems to think representative of the entire religion? Hmm... that can't be it, can it? It makes too much sense .

sexism isn't racism, but you seemed perfectly willing to pick up on that argument

Where? All I see is you spouting BS hoping that it sticks .

[Elok]

What you insolent fools do not realize is that they only elected a woman president so somebody expendable would be assasinated. Mwahahahaha.
Quoth the raven, "woo."

[our_man]

Then please Imran, enlighten me as what point you and Ramo are trying to make with regard to Muslim countries and women presidents.

But at least now you admit that women in Muslim countries aren't treated the best. It was a long time coming, but thankyou for agreeing with me.

Imran, the fact is that this thread is about racism; I made a throwaway quote in reference to women and Islam in my first quote, and you decided to pick up on it, and keep going with it.

Of course, I had a part to play; I should have ignored further remarks down this line since they weren't related to the thread topic, but I didn't...

Oh well. It was fun regardless.

And if you thinking I'm spouting BS, believe me, my Malaysian friends wouldn't be impressed. Everything I said about what happens in that country is true; they don't like it, but they have to live with it. Try and have a little sympathy, huh?