How to End Racism

[Monk]

I think less Islam would be a key factor in ending racism, or at least in our part of the world. It would be easier to accept a lot of the people living out here if they didn't surpress women, condemned gays or got special treatment because of their religion and cultural background.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Caligastia
The whole idea of original sin makes no sense. It's incompatable with the idea of a just and loving God.

While I agree with the sentiment, it begs the question: If you don't believe in Original Sin, doesn't that pretty much negate the purpose of Jesus being divine and martyred? It seems to me that if one wants to take it as true that Jesus was the Son of God, it would be very difficult to eliminate his part in Original Sin except by an arbitrary dismissal of it.

If you don't believe Jesus was divine, though, then it can make sense.

[Boris Godunov]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...there are few things I'd rather be less than a homosexual in an Islamic country. The cultural attitudes are so monstrous as to make life for such men and women hell. Maybe this will change in the future like it did for (most) Western cultures, but for right now, it's categorically atrocious.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


While I agree with the sentiment, it begs the question: If you don't believe in Original Sin, doesn't that pretty much negate the purpose of Jesus being divine and martyred? It seems to me that if one wants to take it as true that Jesus was the Son of God, it would be very difficult to eliminate his part in Original Sin except by an arbitrary dismissal of it.

If you don't believe Jesus was divine, though, then it can make sense.

I believe Jesus was divine (though not the only son of God in the biblical sense) but that his purose in coming to earth was to reveal God's love. His being put to death was just an unfortunate occurance.

[our_man]

Less Islam might help Monk, but you could also argue that if everyone became a Muslim, then there wouldn't be any racism in the first place!

I have friends from Malaysia in university. They're basically treated like 2nd class citizens in Malaysia because they are not Muslim. Most of the Malaysian Muslims studying in Ireland are being paid for by their government; non-Muslims for the most part have to pay their own way. And yet they have to come to study here, because some of the higher learning institutes in Malaysia are 'Muslim only' and there are not enough places.

The only reason I'm coming down on Islam so hard with regard to racism is that the orginal post by Rina suggested that Islam is the solution to racism. I'm discrediting this. Racism is practically universal in most cultures; people are naturally afraid of those that are different. The solution to racism is to acknowledge our commmon humanity and be tolerant towards each other.

[Ramo]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...there are few things I'd rather be less than a homosexual in an Islamic country. The cultural attitudes are so monstrous as to make life for such men and women hell. Maybe this will change in the future like it did for (most) Western cultures, but for right now, it's categorically atrocious.

Agreed. Gays are pretty much universally persecuted in the Islamic world.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by our_man
The solution to racism is to acknowledge our commmon humanity and be tolerant towards each other.

I think 'tolerance' is an overrated buzzword. Shouldn't our ultimate goal be to learn to love one another as brothers and sisters? Mere tolerance...pffft

[David Floyd]

This goes into a whole theological thing of the importance of Original Sin and such...but that's not really relevant if one takes the Biblical Flood account literally, because it implies all those other humans were wiped out, and what we have left are only those descendant from A&E and thus have Original Sin.

Sorry, this won't work either. If the humans without Original Sin made the choice not to sin, then God wouldn't have destroyed them in a flood, because the reason for the Flood was to punish everyone who had repeatedly turned to wickedness.

Put another way, why would God save 7 humans who were by definition sinful on some level, while wiping out millions of humans who were not at all sinful? And since the purpose of the Flood was to punish wickedness, this makes no sense at all.

Cali,

I think truth can be discerned without necessarily having other sources. For example, the idea that Jesus was required as a blood sacrifice to convince a supposedly just and loving God to forgive his earthly children seems obviously false to me.

Actually what you are saying is that it seems just and unloving, not "obviously false". It's "obviously false" according to YOUR sense of just and unjust, stipulating that God is just. That stipulation, though, requires a further stipulation that any part of the Bible stating that God is a just God is true. But then on what basis do you believe this? Faith? Oh, and do you also believe that the Bible is the true and inspired Word of God?

[David Floyd]

I believe Jesus was divine (though not the only son of God in the biblical sense) but that his purose in coming to earth was to reveal God's love. His being put to death was just an unfortunate occurance.

If Jesus was divine, and if his death was simply an "unfortunate occurance", then why didn't Jesus or God act to stop the Crucifixion?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Actually what you are saying is that it seems just and unloving, not "obviously false". It's "obviously false" according to YOUR sense of just and unjust, stipulating that God is just. That stipulation, though, requires a further stipulation that any part of the Bible stating that God is a just God is true. But then on what basis do you believe this? Faith? Oh, and do you also believe that the Bible is the true and inspired Word of God?

No, I believe that parts of the Bible are inspired by God, but that much has been influenced by human beliefs.

As for why I believe God is just...need I mention the Urantia Book again?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Sorry, this won't work either. If the humans without Original Sin made the choice not to sin, then God wouldn't have destroyed them in a flood, because the reason for the Flood was to punish everyone who had repeatedly turned to wickedness.

Put another way, why would God save 7 humans who were by definition sinful on some level, while wiping out millions of humans who were not at all sinful? And since the purpose of the Flood was to punish wickedness, this makes no sense at all.

"Original Sin" refers to the sin of A&E. Why would the absense of that particular sin render all other humans created incapable of wickedness? Perhaps after the Fall, God made the other people to be like "ordinary humans," with the ability to be wicked, just for the very purpose of creating a diverse gene pool and suitable mates for the descendants of A&E?

My, my...making hypothetical Biblical situations can be fun!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Odin
Kill all the KKKers and nazis.

Since you got to it before I saw it, that'll only cost you three days instead of a week.

[our_man]

Caligastia, tolerance works pretty well for me, and believe me, even I can find this too demanding at times. To love everyone as brothers and sisters... I ain't no saint.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by David Floyd


If Jesus was divine, and if his death was simply an "unfortunate occurance", then why didn't Jesus or God act to stop the Crucifixion?

Jesus' work here on earth was done, and it was decided by him not to interfere in the natural conclusion to his human experience.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by our_man
Caligastia, tolerance works pretty well for me, and believe me, even I can find this too demanding at times. To love everyone as brothers and sisters... I ain't no saint.

Ever heard the saying about shooting for the moon? If your aim is love your brothers and sisters on this planet, then you should at least be able to tolerate them. If you only aim to tolerate, what happens when you fail in that?