Red Wine

[Ben Kenobi]

A fine thread to dedicate to (2)

Perhaps the mods can change the title with the threadstarter's permission.

[Dinner]

I'm enjoying a nice Californian Merlot right now with my sun dried tomato, garlic, basil, and feta cheese pizza which was cooked in a hickey wood oven. Hmmm, excellent.

[Japher]

Beer.

[Dinner]

No beer I'm afraid but that was by choice. I was looking for a nice red wine to have with my pizza.

[st_swithin]

Where do you find a pizza joint that serves good red wine? Usually your choices are limited to chianti, chianti, or chianti.

[The Mad Monk]

I suspect he's having it at home, unless cyber-pizzarias are the Next Big Thing.

I have a bottle of "Chateau Larose-Trintaudon" 1999. I bought it for $12 at BJ's. I like it.

Is it "good"?

It also says, "cru bourgois", "Haut-Medoc", "Appellation Haut-Medoc Controlee", "S.A. Du Chateau Larose-Trintaudon Proprietaire A Saint-Laurent-Du-Medoc - Gironde - France", and "Grand Vin De Bordeaux".

Which, if any, of these phrases should I be paying attention to?

[st_swithin]

I have no idea.

You can buy a nice bottle of Marques de Caceres rioja at Trader Joe's for $6, though, and it puts all of those you mentioned to shame.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Is it "good"?

Can't tell you. I never really was into Bordeaux wines. But if you're a beginner in drinking red wines, chances are you'll find it too rough. If you're used to reds, Bordeaux are generally of good quality, but you're allowed to dislike them if you want

It also says, "cru bourgois", "Haut-Medoc", "Appellation Haut-Medoc Controlee", "S.A. Du Chateau Larose-Trintaudon Proprietaire A Saint-Laurent-Du-Medoc - Gironde - France", and "Grand Vin De Bordeaux".

Which, if any, of these phrases should I be paying attention to?

You should take notice of these phrases only if you enjoy the wine so much that you want to buy it again. Basically, it states the region of origin (Haut Médoc is an area north of Bordeaux), the name & address of the business, and the specific product from their winery you are drinking. The kind of grapes was not mentioned, which is fairly frequent with French wines, especially (alledgedly) great Reds.

A real specialist could tell you about his impressions on this wine, but it requires to have tasted it first. I never did

[Drogue]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Is it "good"?

It should be. From a good region, and it's cru bourgois. Would be appropriate for all but the very highest of dinner parties,a nd only an extreme snob would baulk at it not being in the cru classes. Well worth $12 IMHO.

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
It also says, "cru bourgois"

Cru Bourgois refers to the 'cru' or class of the wine. Bordeaux uses a tiered system, starting with 'Premier Cru' going down to 'Cinqeme Cru' (sp - 5eme anyways). Below that is Cru Bourgois, which means it is above a 'normal' Appellation Controlee, but below one of the 'classed growths'. $12 is a pretty decent price to pay for a Cru Bourgois IMHO, as we often have to pay £10-15 ($15-22) for one.

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
"Haut-Medoc"

As Spiffor said, it is a northern area of Bordeaux, just south of the Medoc. It is made up of sub regions of Margaux, Pomerol, Paulliac, St-Julien and a few others - the famous ones. It is the most desireable region of Bordeaux. Itis mostly Cabernet Sauvignon with some Merlot usually.

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
"Appellation Haut-Medoc Controlee"

Appellation Controlee means that it meets certain criteria, such as a small enough yield, and generally guarentees a better wine than a Vin de Pays. The area in the middle refers to how big the Appellation is. Appellation Haut-Medoc Controlee means that it conforms to the Appellation, and all the grapes come from the Haut-Medoc area. The smaller the Appellation, even to a single village, usually means the better.

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
"S.A. Du Chateau Larose-Trintaudon Proprietaire A Saint-Laurent-Du-Medoc - Gironde - France"

The name and address of the winemaker. Only needed for a famous winemaker, and I don't know enough to tell which are

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
and "Grand Vin De Bordeaux".

Simply "Grand wine of Bordeaux". Means nothing really, just put there to look nice.

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Which, if any, of these phrases should I be paying attention to?

The area and the cru. Both of these matter greatly. Almost all will be Appellation or Vin de Pays, the former means it has more constraints on quality. The name of the proprieter only matters if you want to buy it again.

Spiffor is right of course, just adding to what he said.

[Spiffor]

I hate you Drogue

How come I, a Frenchman, is learning something from an Englishman ?



Thanks for telling about the "cru" system in Bordeaux. I didn't know about it.

[Drogue]

Especially one barely old enough to drink

I think Cru Bourgois is split into a few sub-catagories too, but I'v never bothered with that. Some of the best Bordeaux I've ever had was cru bourgois, but then, since I'm a student, I don't get to buy anything that expensive

Although as of today, I am now a bartender

[DAVOUT]

Simply "Grand wine of Bordeaux". Means nothing really, just put there to look nice.

Means nothing?

It is the only instance the ordinary name of the product within the bottle is mentionned !

-------------------------
To the customer looking at the bottle :

- No Sir, it is not ink, nor vinegar (although ...), nor syrup, nor dye, it is a drink, generally referred to as wine. As you can see on the label, here, ... yes the small letters, vin; it is the French word for wine.

- Why dont they use big letters so that I see right away that Chateau Petrus is a drink; are not they proud of their products?

- Ah, they certainly are proud of it, but in addition they are as usual arrogant to the point that they believe that the whole world know what Chateau Petrus is ...

[pchang]

Arrogance

But in fact, anyone with enough money to buy Chateau Petrus does know what it is.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by st_swithin
Where do you find a pizza joint that serves good red wine? Usually your choices are limited to chianti, chianti, or chianti.

California Pizza Kitchen is a chain with a large selection of wines to go with their pizzas and the servers even seem to know what they're talking about.

I bought my Pizza at the local Italian restaurant down the block and I'm currently at my parents house so I just raided their wine cellar for the merlot.

[The Mad Monk]

Spiffor, Drogue, thanks! You've helped a good deal.

I had another glass from the same bottle (open four days now, typical for me, I'm a slow drinker), and it's gone quite tannic on me. Not sure if it's oxidation, a bit too cold, or if I'm just getting sediment. Still good, though.

I went back to the place to see if I could pick up a case (I think it's that good), and it was all gone. Found some 1998, so I bought two bottles and see if that's good, too. If it is, I'll run back and get the rest.