New rape law allows change of mind

[Imran Siddiqui]

Agathon, I think though after the 2nd time she stated she wanted to go home, he should have ended it. It took 90 seconds after the THIRD time she said so. But I totally agree with your last point. When you want to stop sex don't just say "I have to go home soon", say "Stop!".

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Agathon, I think though after the 2nd time she stated she wanted to go home, he should have ended it. It took 90 seconds after the THIRD time she said so. But I totally agree with your last point. When you want to stop sex don't just say "I have to go home soon", say "Stop!".

My point is that she could have said this numerous times and it still wouldn't necessarily indicate to anyone that she considered it rape.

Anyway, the whole rape thing has become ridiculous. In most cases it is clear that a crime has been committed; but in cases that are often labelled "date rape" it often comes down to a he said/she said.

Feminists point out that this leaves women vulnerable to exploitation and they are right because these situations are ones where there are invariably no witnesses. However, their solution seems to be to abandon the notions of reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty in an attempt to prevent more rapes. This strikes me as silly: thinking that we have to compensate for the number of innocent women who are the victims of date rape by locking up innocent men is a fundamentally wrong headed approach to the law. This is not a comparative wrong, the rape of 10 women is not compensated for by locking up one man, just as we don't compensate for murder victims by finding innocent people to kill. It also provides more incentive for malicious claims of rape (which are documented in spite of what radical feminists say)

In short I think this is a problem that cannot be solved. We cannot abandon the notions of reasonable doubt and there is no way that we can really make things more equal for women unless we have supervised intercourse or other such unrealistic policies. I guess they just have to suck it up and be as careful as they can - we simply can't make it better without making it worse.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Flubber


While I appreciate the compliment, I fear you have little evidence on which to make the assessment of my skills

Most of what I am spouting on here is basic first year criminal law stuff remembered from law school with some recent crim cases that I read for interest. I don't practice criminal law as I could never get past the dilemma of defending say a child molester, knowing they will likely reoffend. I am actually a bit of a coward/hypocrit in that I believe in everyone's right to a fair trial but leave the work of defending them to others

Don't sweat it, I was just throwing you a bone because you are generally a thoughtful poster and a fellow SMAC player, and because your post was right there when I was writing that bloated prose. My girlfriend is an attorney also, but she quickly decided that she didn't like it much and could make more money as a pharmacist (her undergrad degree) anyway. Now she volunteers at legal aid and handles divorces and such, which she calls the world's most expensive hobby.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm concerned about hearing someone who wants to stop. Granted, it should be obvious when someone wants to stop having sex without hearing them say anything, but what if the guy normally can't hear?

Also, the lack of a third party or evidence corroborating one testimony over another causes problems trying to prevent false convictions.

Agathon:

It seems to me the best way to fix things is to encourage men to work with the women rather than against them.

No means no may be simple, but it doesn't make men into better lovers.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Che, you're not in the least bit prejudiced, are you? You seem to have convicted Kobe by attributing to him the behaviour of other atheletes.

Actually, I don't care one way of the other about Kobe. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The lives of celebrities really dont' matter to me.

On the other hand, it's interesting whow the women who are alledging rape are always demonized. She was stupid. Maybe, but that doesn't mean you should be raped. Most people are stupider than me, does that mean I get to rape them? She's just in it for the money? Oh, has she sued yet? She's a liar. Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know, we weren't there and we haven't examined the evidence.


edit: fixed spelling error

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Actually, I don't care one way of the other about Kobe. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The lives of celebrities really dont' matter to me.

On the other hand, it's interesting who the women who is alledging rape is always demonized. She was stupid. Maybe, but that doesn't mean you should be raped. Most people are stupider than me, does that mean I get to rape them? She's just in it for the money? Oh, has she sued yet? She's a liar. Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know, we weren't there and we haven't examined the evidence.

No, actually, I find it hard to believe that anyone would bring false criminal charges against anyone. So, I am already half believing that Kobe did something wrong. I just do not assume he is guilty because atheletes in general abuse women.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The lives of celebrities really dont' matter to me.

What an odd thing to say. Does their fame make them any less worthy of the basic respect you would give any other human being?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


What an odd thing to say. Does their fame make them any less worthy of the basic respect you would give any other human being?

No, I just don't really care about them. So they're celebrities, whoop de doo. So that makes them instantly better than everyone else? I'm just not one of those people who gives a damn about the cult of celebrity. I don't watch Extra! or ET or give a **** about shows like the Anna Nicole Show or the Osbornes.

[Kuciwalker]

On the other hand, it's interesting who the women who is alledging rape is always demonized.

As is the man who is accused. I thought you were for equal rights for women.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
I just do not assume he is guilty because atheletes in general abuse women.

I didn't say that athelets in general abuse women. It is true, however, that athelets tend to have very macho views and behavior, and there is a correlation between such views and bahavior and the treatment of women.

That doesn't mean that atheletes are all like this or that atheletes are all bad people.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by skywalker

On the other hand, it's interesting who the women who is alledging rape is always demonized.

As is the man who is accused.

Yeah, Kobe's soooooo demonized.

Hell, people today still think Tyson was innocent and that Ms. Washington was only out for some money (not that she ever sued him).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I didn't say that athelets in general abuse women. It is true, however, that athelets tend to have very macho views and behavior, and there is a correlation between such views and bahavior and the treatment of women.

Read your first sentence. Then read your second sentence. Is this sort of like the "gradual change in views" that you attribute to conservatives as an explanation for why they aren't rapists?

Oh, and let us just look at what you claimed wasn't a statement that "athletes in general abuse women".

In my experience, there are a lot of men, especially associated with sports, who don't care a lot about what women think or say.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, Kobe's soooooo demonized.

Are you f'ing kidding me?!!

Yeah, Kobe is demonized by this. Before he was known as a clean cut guy who played good basketball. Now this will follow him around everywhere, even if he was totally innocent. The perception towards him has already changed.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Yeah, Kobe's soooooo demonized.

Are you f'ing kidding me?!!

Yeah, Kobe is demonized by this. Before he was known as a clean cut guy who played good basketball. Now this will follow him around everywhere, even if he was totally innocent. The perception towards him has already changed.

That's his fault, ya know. He shouldn't have been committing adultery with a 19-year-old girl if he didn't want to lose his clean cut image.

Even if the accusations are false, he bears responsibility for acting so stupidly with someone whom he had no reason to trust.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Adultery and rape are vastly different to a person's reputation, Boris, and you should know that.

To say Kobe isn't being demonized by this is just not looking at the situation at all.