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**MikeH** · July 30, 2003, 06:21

<---- Euro flag

I feel much better about being European than British. The European parliment is a bit **** at the moment though.

**Pekka** · July 30, 2003, 06:23

I'm not full of hatred, and also I'm not the one calling people by names that are insulting, and then doing the innocent act and continue blaming the other guy for getting pissed at it. If I call someone by insulting names, then I stand behind what I said, or I apologize.

**CerberusIV** · July 30, 2003, 06:28

Question - why do we have an EU?

Answer 1 - to promote economic stability in europe.

Answer 2 - to try and ensure the member states solve their differences by other means than starting a shooting war with each other.

Conclusion - it is a success so far and will continue even though people will whine about the details (sometimes with justification).

That's it really. Over to the trolls.

**laurentius** · July 30, 2003, 06:29

Hey, Pekka I dont' know if You are finno-american, I dont know if you listen to country, dress like cowboy or are you even pohjalainen for example. I honestly was not trying to insult you. If you recognised yourself from my description and feel insulted, my apology.
It's just that these euro-bashers are sometimes a bit amusing in their bias

And it's not just Finland, I know that theres authentic "Western" or "Wild-West"- village in Germany with all these freaks running around playing cowboys

**Pekka** · July 30, 2003, 06:31

Cerberus, well I'm not trying to argue with your post. I pretty much agree.

But some people just make it sound like it's something glorious and absolutely fantastic and jolly in a way that it isn't.

**Pekka** · July 30, 2003, 06:34

laurentius, ok I was heated too. I can't stand this summer heat anyway.

No, FYI I'm not one of these people. The only one I know is Timo TA Mikkonen. I never knew this thing was that popular in here. And yes, apology accepted, and if you even dream about calling my pohjalainen in your sleep, you must wake up and come here to apologize

My intention was not to bash Europe. But I did some bashing I admit. My intention was just to point out, that not every euro is euro in heart, and that Europe in general is not so unified to begin with. Just bunch of countries. THat's it. It's fact, and it ends right there.

**laurentius** · July 30, 2003, 06:37

But EU is fantastic, why would you like the old times back? Would you like to live in politically and economically unstable Europe that would be divided into allies and counter allies, where everyone would stab each other to the back and evenscientific research would be intra-nation mostly?

It's just horrible to even imagine that German Hefe-Weissbiers would be even more expensive-due to tolls- than they are today

(where is the beer smiley when you need one

**DAVOUT** · July 30, 2003, 06:51

From a continent mostly destroyed in 1946, made of people having killed eachother for 1000 years, we have made a way toward an improbable association of willing countries. The freedom of movement for people, corporations and money has produced some significant achievement, in addition to peace which should not be underestimated.

Vel said that the european economy was not enough integrated to do economies of scale. The very first step, the act of birth or the EU was the Community of the coal and steel, which was nothing else that the rationalization of the production of these two key products in the five original countries.

Amongst other major industrial projects made possible by the economic integration, are : Ariane and Airbus. These two projects resulted in competitive products in hightly technological areas.

There is certainly a lot to be done, but making the europeans (including the British) working together at this level took 50 years, which is not so bad.

Pekka does not know that any country joigning the EU benefits from special programs aiming to help the said country to catch up with the average PIB; and it works; ask Portugal and Greece and Spain. The equality is not an empty concept.

**laurentius** · July 30, 2003, 06:52

Also, I think it's all about the variety and depth of unity. I mean howabout if we are so unified that you don't even notice it. I must say I feel very strong unity with other Europeans. We have common past, history, ideologies, present and hopefully future.

It's just that the things unifying are different compared to americans eg. They have this thing called patriotism wich seems really shallow and silly thing to me. You said that other Europeans don't know anything about us. Not true, I can tell. Think about it. How many floridans or maineans give a crap about whats going down in nebraska or utah? They probaly don't know about those places and dont give a damn. It seems to me that you have too high standards. We can be european without lknowing all the languages, histories or artist of each individual european nation

**Pekka** · July 30, 2003, 06:54

DAVOUT, So that means true unity and equality? It's still bunch of individual countries and few laws and a loose alliance aimed for not letting us fight each other. Worked for few decades. whopee.

Wait.. It's for you. Mr Jackson would like you to make some lyrics to a new song.

**Pekka** · July 30, 2003, 06:59

laurentius, yeah sure we have common history, what ever you mean by that, because we happen to be neighbours to each other. We have common history with everyone if we really think about it. What are European ideologies that are one with every single nation? Our present says in the paper that we are European and that's a fact, but we are not one. IF you think about floridans etc not caring about some folks in nebraska, well.. it's inside the country. We are you know real countries in this Europe.

**Drake Tungsten** · July 30, 2003, 07:00

How many floridans or maineans give a crap about whats going down in nebraska or utah?

For the record, a Floridian called me today and wanted to know all about what was going down in Nebraska. Seriously.

IF you think about floridans etc not caring about some folks in nebraska, well.. it's inside the country.

Floridians are still *******s, though, even if we are in the same country.

**laurentius** · July 30, 2003, 07:00

Yeah, they are states for sure, but the analogy still works.

**Pekka** · July 30, 2003, 07:03

So, your point is that.... Americans are not unified either?
I never said anything about Americas unity.

**laurentius** · July 30, 2003, 07:07

So what kind of unity are you talking about? What is it that you want ?

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