Euros

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Pekka
No, I mean EU is loose alliance because it is not strong. If it is not unified, if it is not equal, it can not be anything else than a loose alliance at the very best.

You seem to think that the EU should be like a big nation state, but that isn´t at all the goal, at least not in the near future. it is a union of nation states, no new superstate. That those nations (which were at war with eachother most of the time in earlier centuries) who form the EU still have other interests is hardly surprising, and it will still be that way for quite a long time. Still they have enough common ground to form the EU, and share a lot of things. Sandman mentioned eg. law and currency, but these achievements are rooted in common values and interests. The EU is btw the first project of its kind and noone can expect that this goes all without problems.

Still, with all these problems it is quite attractive for new members, otherwise nobody would join the EU.

[Velociryx]

You mean, with phrases like "the Eastern European countries....EU entrant hopefuls, missed a very good opportunity to shut up?"



-=Vel=-

[BeBMan]

One stupid comment doesn´t change the fact that those countries want to be (and will be, if they aren´t already) EU members.

[Pekka]

BeBro, Well what are the goals of Europe and EU, if not a superpower? To be mediocre? To have few common laws and same looking money? To me that still sounds like an alliance or union, but they don't make us unified or equal now does it? And that's why I see it won't succeed. That is why I see it only consisting of borders we have made up, and a word European that means you are from the area of Europe. To see anything else I do not understand. Some see potential, but potential is not a synonyme for unity, equality and success.

[Velociryx]

Of course they want to be....members get the no-tarrif treatment. If your economy had been REAMED by seventy-odd years of Soviet mismanagement, you'd want the no-tarrif treatment too! (especially given the alternative of being largely shut out of Euro markets).

But at this stage of its development, it would be false to refer to the EU as a "unified European economy." It's just not there yet.

-=Vel=-

[Drake Tungsten]

I feel bad for the Eastern European countries, so desperate for economic success that they'll take the **** Old Europe dishes out. We need to help those guys. Anyone else think America should accept applications for a few new states?

[Velociryx]

Further, Pekka's point about inequality rings very true. The major players of the game are France and Germany, and the leaders of those two nations strut around like the **** of the block. That will get tiresome after a time to the "lesser members"--who collectively, out number the "greater members" by an impressive margin. Further, the formerly mismanaged economies will be growing by leaps and bounds once fully integrated into the system as it stands, and as their economic clout increases, so too will their desire for a stronger voice, which will, no doubt, be seen as a direct threat.

And Britain is another matter entirely....powerful in her own right, she will not be the silent lapdog of the strutting players on the stage now.

-=Vel=-

[Pekka]

Drake, don't worry.. when they are part of the new superpower EU, they will become part of something special and they can join the central Europe hegemony, and that'll keep their hungry stomachs quiet for a moment.

[GePap]

There has been a concept of the "European man" for centuries now and a beliefe that all such men should end up under one leadership brought about peacefully for decades. nietzsche spoke about himself as a European, not German (he did not have too many nice things to say about germans). the thing is Pekka, including Finns into that category is brand new..after all, for a long time you were heathens, and then under the rule of eastern Barbarians... You could not possibly have become full Europeans by now.

[Drake Tungsten]

they can join the central Europe hegemony

I doubt it. France and Germany run the EU, as Velo said, and I doubt they'll start treating the other members as equals anytime soon.

[Pekka]

BUt sure, new members will benefit and their economies will benefit greatly I believe. I believe they will do better when they get to be part of it.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I feel bad for the Eastern European countries, so desperate for economic success that they'll take the **** Old Europe dishes out. We need to help those guys. Anyone else think America should accept applications for a few new states?

No. Specially Eastern Europeans.

[Pekka]

Drake, that's exactly what I meant . But they can join hailing the kings. It's good to see someone from the same team doing great .

[Drake Tungsten]

No. Specially Eastern Europeans.

Racist.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Drake: The preferred PC term for 'racist' is now 'Boddingtons'. Please adjust your vocabulary to take consonance with these recent changes.

Thank you .