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Asher, you have any information on G5?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Asher
    IBM and Apple have been heavily optimizing the GCC compiler for the G5 for a long time now.
    Intel optimizes its own Intel compiler rather than GCC.

    So Apple saw this, thought it'd make a brilliant marketing move -- we can compile both using the same compiler, because 99.9% of people won't know that GCC sucks for Pentium 4 code. But just to be safe, they disabled SSE2 (which is a huge performance booster, akin to the G5's AltiVec) because they claimed it reduced performance (bull****).
    p://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q3/cpu2000-20030616-02265.html">1205
    Just by the way, there's an effort to add support for autovectorization in gcc with SSA for Trees (Tree-SSA is expected to be merged in in 3.5). This means that gcc will be able to use vector extension optimizations even if they haven't been explicitly coded in. icc already does this. Intel's engineers probably know their own stuff better than outsiders, so if they aren't going to help the gcc folks, I don't think gcc will be able to reach the speeds of icc on Intel's stuff. Not to mention that compiler development is rather slowish - SSE2 wasn't even supported in gcc before 3.3 (which isn't considered stable enough for general use by most distros yet), and one can expect to wait at least a year for 3.5... perhaps even longer for autovectorization. Still, the point is, gcc is going to produce faster code than it does now...
    This is Shireroth, and Giant Squid will brutally murder me if I ever remove this link from my signature | In the end it won't be love that saves us, it will be mathematics | So many people have this concept of God the Avenger. I see God as the ultimate sense of humor -- SlowwHand

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    • #32
      Drake: That Apple interview isn't the "other side of the story" -- it's the exact same one on their website.

      They crippled the P4 so they could score better in (3/4) of the benchmarks, then claimed they had the fastest personal computer.

      Anyone with a f*cking clue can realize Apple's sleight of hand -- after all, they've been doing it for as long as I can remember.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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      • #33
        I don't get these kinds of wars... processor clock speeds aren't the be all/end all of computer performance. All things being equal, faster clock speeds are good... but it certainly isn't worth buying the newest top of the line processor.
        To us, it is the BEAST.

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        • #34
          I was under the impression that it would indeed be ****ing fast, but it would also be ****ing expensive. Now, off to the Research!
          meet the new boss, same as the old boss

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Sava
            I don't get these kinds of wars... processor clock speeds aren't the be all/end all of computer performance. All things being equal, faster clock speeds are good... but it certainly isn't worth buying the newest top of the line processor.
            But what if you have money to burn, and that obsolete 6 month old laptop, you're using just isn't performing enough to warrant waiting another year before building an utterly ridiculously high powered desktop?
            "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
            -Joan Robinson

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            • #36
              But what if you have money to burn, and that obsolete 6 month old laptop, you're using just isn't performing enough to warrant waiting another year before building an utterly ridiculously high powered desktop?
              Well duh, if you are rich or something, yeah it doesn't matter. But for most people, money doesn't grow on trees.
              To us, it is the BEAST.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Sava
                Well duh, if you are rich or something, yeah it doesn't matter. But for most people, money doesn't grow on trees.
                When you have few expenses, you don't have to make much to have money to burn
                "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                -Joan Robinson

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                • #38
                  The PowerMac is actually a workstation, and they're targetted for the workstation market.

                  And workstations do need lots of power.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                  • #39
                    apple was MUCH further behind in 1995. Still, it's still got a slower processer than PCs, but we're catching up.
                    "mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
                    Drake Tungsten
                    "get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
                    Albert Speer

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by monolith94
                      apple was MUCH further behind in 1995. Still, it's still got a slower processer than PCs, but we're catching up.
                      That's BS. Looking how Apple has gone in the past ten years, I would say otherwise.
                      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Fez
                        Yeah I just found this site: http://www.aceshardware.com/read_news.jsp?id=75000384

                        "Perhaps the biggest threat to Apple's performance claims is not compilers, but time. The Power Mac G5s are scheduled to ship in August, but Intel has already introduced the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 this week, while both Athlon 64 and Prescott are on the horizon. The true performance test will lie in a wide array of application-level benchmarks, affording some perspective to users for how well the applications they use will perform."
                        This subject has been done to death. For once I agree with you, Fez. I spent ages trying to convince people of the bolded portion of your quote.

                        Common sense though isn't it.
                        Only feebs vote.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Agathon


                          This subject has been done to death. For once I agree with you, Fez. I spent ages trying to convince people of the bolded portion of your quote.

                          Common sense though isn't it.
                          I hate to break this to you, but I am not agreeing with you. Apple won't succeed and suffer another failure. That is my view on this issue.
                          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                          • #43
                            Suffer another failure? Yeah, the imac was a HUGE failure.

                            "Looking how Apple has gone in the past ten years, I would say otherwise."

                            Have you been a mac user for the past ten years? No? Well I have, and speaking from that perspective, I must say that living as a mac user has never been better.
                            "mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
                            Drake Tungsten
                            "get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
                            Albert Speer

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by monolith94
                              Suffer another failure? Yeah, the imac was a HUGE failure.
                              Explain why Apple's market share has done nothing but dwindled?

                              Have you been a mac user for the past ten years? No? Well I have, and speaking from that perspective, I must say that living as a mac user has never been better.
                              Actually somebody I know has. They just converted to a Pentium 4. Being a PC (AMD) user is better than being a Mac User. Primarily for me it has to do with how many applications and games are on each. Also I can upgrade my computer more easily than you can. Plus the PC is much faster than a Mac.

                              Those are my reasons for being a PC user and why the PC is better.
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Fez

                                I hate to break this to you, but I am not agreeing with you. Apple won't succeed and suffer another failure. That is my view on this issue.
                                Why did you post that quote then. I spent ages arguing that real world performance with commonly used apps is what matters. That's all I'm agreeing with (similarly almost every writer on the topic agreed with me).

                                Anyway, why bother starting another flame war.
                                Only feebs vote.

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