I HATE vegitarians who are vegitarians because of the animals well being

[Solly]

So?

[LDiCesare]

Let's just stop eating cows, and free them into the wilderness so they can be shot if they start eating our corn fields, starve to death, get diseases or get eaten by the few bears and wolves that remain.

[The Mad Monk]

...and that's why hunting is a good thing.

[Vesayen]

"Vesayen you might as well yell at everybody in the world... You're telling me you've never bought some nike shoes, or some reebok sweater hmmm?"



Yeap, exactly right. I am very carefull about everything I buy. It's not as hard as you think.










"Slave labour by the way is bad, but you don't have to exaggerate. In some areas the work these companies provide (for the wrong reasons of course) is the only means of earning money. If you would move out those factories the people would object to that as they would have nothing now to earn money with. I know it's not fun if you're a child and you have to work in a factory or something all day, but it's better than nothing."

No, slavery is slavery......... is a slave better off being given a piece of horse **** every night to eat, or being free but having to find another means of sustinence?









"The idea is to gradually improve the situation there, rising the wages after a while etc, unfortunately that's something Nike and Reebok have to do, and they're not always inclined to do that!"

That smacks REDICULOUSLY of imperialism so dont even try to use that rationale....... "The natives cant handle themselves, so we'll manage them now, but gradually we'll raise them to our level!" ask the native americans, africans and native australians how that worked out! I dont think you'll like there response very much.






"This doesn't mean I don't care for slavery or other things, but I think you are confusing things here, being a veggie hasn't got anything to do with ignoring poor people.
About the leather jacket things. Leather is a byproduct and yes it would as a matter of fact go to waste anyway. Nothing wrong with leather... You can make leather out of human skin as well, I have no problems with that, just like ppl can use my organs when I suddenly die in a car crash or something.. won't need my body anymore anyway."

Your trying to wave your hand, say "pah!" and expect that to be justification, it isnt. The problem is quite simply, and one you havent addressed, that you are concerning yourself with animal suffering over human suffering, which seems barbaric.

Originally posted by Drogue
That you would judge people at all because of what they eat is incredibly prejudiced, like judging someone on their religion. Why should we care about human rights over animal rights? Why can't we care about both too? If someone doesn't shop at GAP, but is a vegetarian, is that alright by you then?

Why should we care about humans rights over animal rights? Because we are humans, and they are animals......... I'm NOT saying we shouldnt care about animals-we should, im a big animal rights activist, my point is that if you care about animal rights, you should care about human rights as well, and give at LEAST as much attention to humans rights as animals. If someone is consistent with their aproach(vegitarian AND dosent buy slave made goods) then they have my UTMOST respect, I just cant stand the hypocrits who only do it half way, and the wrong way(with animals over humans).

[The Mad Monk]

ask the native americans

Would you please leave us out of this? Most of us with Native American blood are very well adjusted and reasonably well off, thankyouveryumuch.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk


This is why I think people who want to reduce factory farming should encourage hunting.

Yes, because you could probably feed all the clerks working in Pentagon for a day if everyone in America got their machine guns and hunted hard enough.

[loinburger]

Oh sure, it's ridiculously easy to hunt cows, especially when they're already penned up.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by St Leo


Yes, because you could probably feed all the clerks working in Pentagon for a day if everyone in America got their machine guns and hunted hard enough.

...and the next day, CANADA!

[Spiffor]

Animals do have fear before being slaughtered, when they see other animals getting slaughtered right before them. It's nNot a little fear, but the worst fear a live being can have, because it goes straight against its survival instinct.
I've heard that very many cows crap right before being slaughtered, some others passing out, and IIRC, some even do die of fear in the mass slaughterhouses. These places are on par with death camps, and the animals there understand it perfectly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a veggie, and I don't intend to be. However, to claim the animals don't suffer or don't understand what is happening is plain wrong. The suffering in these places is terrible, and could be alleviated with a few cheap changes : larger cattle wagons, smaller and more spread slaughterhouses (reduces cattle stress as well as transportation time), lower slaughtering speed, so that the following beasts cannot see or hear the previous one die.
The end price would hardly be higher, since most of meat price comes from transportation, distribution and profits.

About humane treatment of animals during their life : indeed, a chicken that is not raised in batteries has a much better taste than a battery one, and is healthier: battery chickens (or any other animal) do not exercize and end up with too much fat and amorphed muscle. They are much worse than healthy chicken who got to run in the backyars. Unfortunately, these chicken are also much, much more expansive to raise, and can only be bought by middle classes or better who happen to take care of their diet.

The way you feed the animals is very important too. Because farmers went for the cheapest crap, we ended up with the mad cow disease. The end taste can change as well, although it is harder to detect than the end taste between a healthy and a battery animal.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Animals do have fear before being slaughtered, when they see other animals getting slaughtered right before them. It's nNot a little fear, but the worst fear a live being can have, because it goes straight against its survival instinct.
I've heard that very many cows crap right before being slaughtered, some others passing out, and IIRC, some even do die of fear in the mass slaughterhouses. These places are on par with death camps, and the animals there understand it perfectly.

Yep. It's really sad situation...

[Sarxis]

Feeling spiteful, I've chosen option '3'.

But I couldn't care less what people do and don't eat. Just leave my Big Macs and Coney Dogs the frick alone!!

[:) Smiley]

You've missed a few major reasons:

Religious reasons- one part of Buddhism is vegetarianism.

Ecological reasons- meat production requires more land and resource use than equivalent plants.

[Odin]

I am not a veggetarian, but I find the way the animals are treated to be disgusting. I think people eat waaaaaaaay to much meat. growing plant products take much less land area than ranching, and that is better on the enviroment. cold blooded animals are another way to save space, they only need 10% the food that warm-blooded animals need. (there is an species of iguana sometimes called the chicken of the trees ). That is why I support aquaculture, raising fish takes less space than raisng mammals and birds, and will reduce the ecological damage from comercial fishing. also, hunting of animals for "supernatural" medicines in oriental markets should be totally banned, as should the killing of whales and sharks. The UN should help protect nature reserves free from poachers, I think poachers should be killed on the spot, that should stop it.

[Jon Miller]

go vegeterrians

Jon Miller
(Who is vege because he can't stand the thought of eating meat)

[Dis]

blah! blah! growing plants takes up more space. *yawn*

Show me a plant that has as much protein (and B12 for that matter) as meat and tastes just as good.

I'm waiting. I'll eat it in a heartbeat if it meets the above qualifications.