iPods

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Ok - you really need an education. Throwing up numbers as proof of audio quality is what those people who don't understand audio quality do. It's like those dumbasses who insist on having the amp with the highest wattage.

Give me a f*cking break, Agathon.
SNR is a widely accepted statistical indicator of audio quality. You are not going to dismiss it as being irrelevant and insisting the iPods is somehow superior because people pay more money for them.

Apple doesn't exactly have, or use, any high-end DSP chips. Creative and Yamaha work together for the ones in the Zen, and that's why it has better SnR, harmonic distortion, and channel separation.

And unless you have something to disprove the audio quality and spec statistics, don't bother making an ass out of yourself further.

As I said, you as a teenybopper, wouldn't know audio quality if it bit you in the ass.

Let me guess, you have some sort of flashing-lights mini system in the corner of your bedroom?

And you're a f*cking philosophy guy.
Who's liable to know more about technology?

And for the record, I listen to my music on the $5,000 home theatre downstairs that I researched and picked out.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You are kidding me.... saying that people that "don't know audio" throw out numbers?!

How the Hell do you back up your claim that iPod is better audio than anything else without numbers?!!! Are you claiming you've listened to EVERY mp3 player out there?!

[Asher]

And you don't know what the **** you are talking about. Apple is the only computer company to ever win a Grammy for ****'s sake.

Excuse me? I don't know what I'm talking about?

You just told me Signal to Noise ratio has NOTHING to do with audio quality!
You just somehow linked getting a Grammy to the sound clarity of a portable audio player??

You start acting more and more like Wiglaf by the day.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

Give me a f*cking break, Agathon.
SNR is a widely accepted statistical indicator of audio quality. You are not going to dismiss it as being irrelevant and insisting the iPods is somehow superior because people pay more money for them.

I'm telling you that among people who know hi-fi merely cranking out numbers is a waste of time. If I wanted to tell the difference between the Zen and the ipod I'd need both handy, which I don't. Anyone who buys audio equipment based on numbers is an idiot pure and simple.

Apple doesn't exactly have, or use, any high-end DSP chips. Creative and Yamaha work together for the ones in the Zen, and that's why it has better SnR, harmonic distortion, and channel separation.

Blah blah blah. You are such a twit. This is the way that people who hate music buy their audio equipment.

And unless you have something to disprove the audio quality and spec statistics, don't bother making an ass out of yourself further.

In audio price matters. Not always, but it's a good indicator.

And you're a f*cking philosophy guy.
Who's liable to know more about technology?

Not you apparently. I'm sorry Asher good hi-fi is an art not a science.

And for the record, I listen to my music on the $5,000 home theatre downstairs that I researched and picked out.

And this marks you out as a total newbie. No real audio enthusiast would listen to his music on a home theatre system. They are good for movies and loud bangs and explosions but lousy for high quality reproduction of music.

Real hi fi requires two well grounded speakers, good cables, a good amplifier or pre-amp power amp setup [preferably with an "on" button; a volume knob; and nothing else] and a good CD player (or two piece transport DAC combo).

Let me guess:

It's made by Sony or some other mass-market company - or (slightly better) by some reputable company stooping to home theatre.

It has piles of speakers.

It has a graphic equalizer or tone control buttons.

It has some sort of "super sound" option.

The speakers aren't biwired.

It has a multidisc CD changer.

It has flashing lights.


And let me ask:

What does the system sit on?

What do the speakers sit on?

Are they secured to the floor.

What shape is the room?

[all these would matter to a real hi-fi nut]

[Agathon]

Well?

[asleepathewheel]

I would say that when someone starts hyping features like a calendar and games and whatnot in an MP3 player, they've already conceded that its an inferior product. Who needs that garbage, after all, that's what a cell phone is for.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I would say that when someone starts hyping features like a calendar and games and whatnot in an MP3 player, they've already conceded that its an inferior product. Who needs that garbage, after all, that's what a cell phone is for.

I think the idea is to end up with something you can carry anywhere which will do all of these things.

I don't like the idea, but that's where it seems to be going. Meanwhile I'll stick with a Discman as the sound quality is better. On the other hand, I'm one of the poor boobs who walked through the 80s with a walkman and a huge bag full of cassettes, so an ipod looks pretty tempting (even though the 30 gig version wouldn't come close to holding my collection).

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Agathon


I think the idea is to end up with something you can carry anywhere which will do all of these things.

I don't like the idea, but that's where it seems to be going. Meanwhile I'll stick with a Discman as the sound quality is better. On the other hand, I'm one of the poor boobs who walked through the 80s with a walkman and a huge bag full of cassettes, so an ipod looks pretty tempting (even though the 30 gig version wouldn't come close to holding my collection).

I'm like some of the other posters, the price on ipods is just prohibitive. Too bad. And when they are sold for less, such as at Dell, they are on back order for months. They are a bit sexier, but for the price differential?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You are kidding me.... saying that people that "don't know audio" throw out numbers?!

How the Hell do you back up your claim that iPod is better audio than anything else without numbers?!!! Are you claiming you've listened to EVERY mp3 player out there?!

No. What I said is that price is usually a good indicator in audio. That's why a 2000 dollar 30 watt amplifier with one volume button beats a 100 watt 500 dollar amplifier with equalizers and all that other useless crap.

I also said that throwing out numbers is a poor way to determine audio quality. Any hi fi magazine will tell you that. Price is a better indicator than single numbers.

And I haven't claimed anything other than that the ipod has a better design, is smaller, is cooler looking, has better software and can do more things. Give me an ipod and a zen and I'll tell you the rest.

I still prefer a discman to all the mp3 players I've heard. The sound quality is better (it's also why these small capacity mp3 players are a waste of time). On the other hand, the sheer amount of music you can carry makes them worthwhile, if you are prepared to accept lower audio quality.

[Buck Birdseed]

Yeah, why are you people babbling on about audio quality when talking about MP3 players? It's like comparing the driveability of a Lada vs. a Trabant.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Yeah, why are you people babbling on about audio quality when talking about MP3 players? It's like comparing the driveability of a Lada vs. a Trabant.

Didn't I say that?

Anyway, I see Asher has shut up because he proved himself to be totally ignorant of hi-fi.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Actually he's not online.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Actually he's not online.

Isn't he lucky.. he really put his foot in it this time.

Home theatre for music..

[Evil Knevil]

Ironically enough the IPod seems to be cheaper in the UK -£299 than the Zen -£329.
Although the Zen has 5 gigs more space, it doesn't include a base unit and all the doo-dahs you'd get free with the IPod, like the remote and engraving. hmmmmm.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Evil Knevil
Ironically enough the IPod seems to be cheaper in the UK -£299 than the Zen -£329.
Although the Zen has 5 gigs more space, it doesn't include a base unit and all the doo-dahs you'd get free with the IPod, like the remote and engraving. hmmmmm.

Having a personally engraved mp3 player is a bit much though.