iPods

[Skanky Burns]

iPod battery life: 8 hours
Zen battery life: 14 hours

Were I in the market for an mp3 player, that alone would almost guarantee one less Zen on the shelf.

[Buck Birdseed]

Let's do a futher comparison.

iPod battery life: 8 hours
Zen battery life: 14 hours
battery life of a Discman a third of the price: 32 hours

iPod max size: 30GB
Zen max size: 60GB
Discman max size: theoretically infinate with cheap, portable memory units called "Compact Discs".

iPod SNR: >90dB
Zen SNR: >98dB
Discman SNR: Not appliccable since the sound is basically pure

Plus there's no "lossy" compression eating up the bassline, a really simple interface, it doesn't look like a cack mockup of a 60s-styled space-age portable radio, and it allows you to carry things like "artwork" and "liner notes" with you for reference.

[Agathon]

Well all I can say is that some people like cheap copies and other people like stuff that is well designed and thought out.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And some people like decent things which are not overpriced simply on the basis of a 'name' .

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And some people like decent things which are not overpriced simply on the basis of a 'name' .

It's not on the basis of a name. Look at them. The Zen looks cheap, it's bigger, clunkier and it can't do what the ipod does.

Can you play games on it? No.

Can you store all your contacts on it? No.

Does it have a calendar? No.

The BMW comparison is apt. You can buy a bigger, faster car, but with BMW you pay for the quality of design. Same with the ipod. That's not for everyone, but then again Apple has sold over a million ipods, so someone must like them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

CNET.com, who I respect as reviewers does have the iPod as an 'Editor's Choice' but the Zen is ranked highly as well and other mp3 players such as the Sonicblue Rio and the Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 also have the 'Editor's Choice' on them. However, they are significantly cheaper than the iPod.

You ARE paying for the name. Just like in TVs, you pay for the name 'Sony'... and to take your example, you pay for the name 'BMV'.

I do wonder if you consider brands such as Panasonic and Volkswagen to be 'cheap copies' in their respective fields? I don't... I consider them to be better values.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
CNET.com, who I respect as reviewers does have the iPod as an 'Editor's Choice' but the Zen is ranked highly as well and other mp3 players such as the Sonicblue Rio and the Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 also have the 'Editor's Choice' on them. However, they are significantly cheaper than the iPod.

You ARE paying for the name. Just like in TVs, you pay for the name 'Sony'... and to take your example, you pay for the name 'BMV'.

I do wonder if you consider brands such as Panasonic and Volkswagen to be 'cheap copies' in their respective fields? I don't... I consider them to be better values.

All I'm saying is that most of the complaining about Apple's stuff being expensive is a pile. You are paying for the services of designers like Jonathan Ive; and probably in the case of the ipod for better components.

Anyone who knows anything about audio knows that quality components make a hell of a difference. That's why Naim make better amplifiers than Sony even though the numbers seem to be in Sony's favour.

[Imran Siddiqui]

All I'm saying is that most of the complaining about Apple's stuff being expensive is a pile.

Why? After all, if I want an mp3 player, price is something I'm going to have to consider. I would not get an iPod at this moment because of the exorbitant price.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

All I'm saying is that most of the complaining about Apple's stuff being expensive is a pile.

Why? After all, if I want an mp3 player, price is something I'm going to have to consider. I would not get an iPod at this moment because of the exorbitant price.

And I'd never stoop to buying a cheap amplifier. You get what you pay for - especially in audio.

Look, I'm the guy who annoyed the hell out of the store clerk by insisting on trying out seven discmans before I bought one.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Can you play games on it? No.

Can you store all your contacts on it? No.

Does it have a calendar? No.

1) Do you understand the definition of "MP3 Player"? If so, how could you argue that calendar/contact/games fits under this umbrella?
2) Why don't you explain to people how painful it is to enter data on the iPod with nothing but a touch-screen scrollbar and an okay and delete button?
3) Tell everyone what wonderful "games" the iPod comes with.

The Zen is an MP3 player. It holds more MP3s, it has more DSP options for playing them, it lasts nearly twice as long on a single charge, and it has crisper audio.

If you're in the market for an MP3 player, the Zen is the obvious choice.

The iPod exists for the trendy yuppies who want something that looks purty rather than functional and economical. Surprisingly, Apple is behind the iPod. So the people who by iPods are also probably equally irrational when buying Macs.

The BMW comparison is apt.

You are right -- it IS a brilliant comparison.

The iPod is like the new BMW X5...which absolutely tarnished BMW's reputation for quality for an insane amount of glitches (mostly computer-related).

The new iPod, similarly, is notorious for crashy,buggy firmware:

Any veteran iPod user has had their iPod crash or freeze on them, because Apple's newer firmware versions are not entirely stable. When the old iPod was reset it would lose it's time and date settings, on the new version the time settings stay intact, which is nice because the player occasionally locks up. Some settings return to their defaults after a short rest.

(http://www.slcentral.com/ipod-mp3-player/)

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/audio/ipod_reliability_reports.html

I wanted to chime in here, because I definitely have a story to tell about my iPod experience... I got an iPod last December, it worked fine for about 3 and a half months, just *past* the warranty- and then it died, spectacularly. It wouldn't even mount, and showed a little icon of a hard drive being scanned, and a progress bar... it would stop suddenly before the end of the progress bar, and then just showed a folder icon with a question-mark: very similar to a Mac that can't find a System Folder! At that point it would turn off entirely.
I wrestled with it for a while, tried to get it to mount over and over- no dice. So, I though I'd call Apple's 800 number, to see what my options were, and I got a nice woman on the line who directed me to point my browser at a particular Apple support page for info. That page said that an out-of-warranty iPod could be exchanged for a refurbished one- for about 250 bucks!! That, coupled with my initial purchase, was WAY more than I was gonna pay for a thousand songs in my pocket! So, I decided to blow it off, and started looking at other HD-based MP3 players. I wasn't too happy with Apple, and the unusually SHORT warranty coverage on the iPod.

My iPod was a pretty solid performer, particularly if it was stationary. I normally used it in the office, either at my desk or when locked away in the server room for hours at a time. But one day, about five or six months after having purchased the unit, I was taking a stroll to the bank and noticed some odd behaviour. With each step, the volume seemed to change. A quick examination revealed that there was very little resistance on the scroll wheel, and as a result every jounce would cause it to spin.

I had iPod failure 130-140 days out from purchase. Luckily, via the double-your-warranty of Mastercard, I was able to get it fixed by Apple for $7 shipping and handling (MC refunded me the other $249).

BMW.
Not to mention the materials Apple uses on the outside of the iPod (and iBooks) are especially prone to scratching...

Another feature of note is Apple is forcing original iPod owners to buy new iPods if they want the new firmware features. Creative, meanwhile, is releasing the new firmware (with new features such as profiles) for the Zen LX as a free download for all Zen owners as well.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And I'd never stoop to buying a cheap amplifier. You get what you pay for - especially in audio.

Who said I'm buying something cheap?

I'm buying things that have more value. If I'm buying an mp3 player, I give two ****s about being able to play games or having a calendar on the damned thing. Fact is that there are players out there that are just about as good as the iPod for almost half the price.

[Agathon]

Blah blah Asher. I seriously doubt that the Zen has crisper audio than the ipod.

You don't strike me as someone who would know good audio quality anyway, with the teenypop trash you like.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
And I'd never stoop to buying a cheap amplifier. You get what you pay for - especially in audio.

I love the beautiful irony -- you bought a more expensive MP3 player that is noticably worse in the audio department.

Blah blah Asher. I seriously doubt that the Zen has crisper audio than the ipod.

It's a simple fact.
Apple claims a >90dB signal to noise ratio, the Zen does >98dB.

Why does that surprise you? Creative has considerably more intellectual property and experience with regards to audio (especially portable audio) than Apple does.

Apple is a newbie. That's why their firmware is buggy and their battery life crappy and sound quality mediocre.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

I love the beautiful irony -- you bought a more expensive MP3 player that is noticably worse in the audio department.

It's a simple fact.
Apple claims a >90dB signal to noise ratio, the Zen does >98dB.

Why does that surprise you? Creative has considerably more intellectual property and experience with regards to audio (especially portable audio) than Apple does.

Apple is a newbie. That's why their firmware is buggy and their battery life crappy and sound quality mediocre.

Ok - you really need an education. Throwing up numbers as proof of audio quality is what those people who don't understand audio quality do. It's like those dumbasses who insist on having the amp with the highest wattage.

As I said, you as a teenybopper, wouldn't know audio quality if it bit you in the ass.

Let me guess, you have some sort of flashing-lights mini system in the corner of your bedroom?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

Why does that surprise you? Creative has considerably more intellectual property and experience with regards to audio (especially portable audio) than Apple does.

Taking a few complaints as a basis for slamming Apple is not good practice.

And you don't know what the **** you are talking about. Apple is the only computer company to ever win a Grammy for ****'s sake.