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**The diplomat** · July 12, 2003, 19:56

Originally posted by Evil Knevil
Personally I think you should pay in blood for what you've done.

I hope you are not an American. If you are, then you are a traitor for that kind of comment.

**MichaeltheGreat** · July 12, 2003, 19:58

Re: Nightmare Scenario: Over a thousand dead US soldiers and a bill of around $125bn...

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Tommy Franks said the other day that the price for the US f*cking up their handling of Iraq will be a US military presence of 2-4 years at a cost of $3.9bn a month...

That's nice. I read the transcript and unfortunately for you, Franks didn't say that. But then again, what's reality or honesty when you can gently paraphrase and spin what someone says to get the result you'd like to work with?

Now, assuming he is not talking out of his arse - which is a major assumption considering what a useless waste of space he has been so far - you're looking at over a thousand dead soldiers on the current bleed rate of one US soldier a day...

(a) He took the numbers and forces he was given, and knocked over Afghanistan while you whiners were talking out your arses about the Soviets, Vietnam, and how Afghanistan was going to swallow the US whole.

(b) He took the numbers and forces he was given, and knocked over main resistance in Iraq in a month, while the leftist whiners were talking months to years of heavy fighting and half a million civilian dead.

So looks like Franks isn't the useless waste of space - the leftist whiners seem do be.

The current "bleed rate" and the rate of funds being spent will both go down, not up, with transition to an Iraqi provisional government and Iraqi primary security. Franks addressed nothing more than an ongoing role for US occupying forces, not the extent or monthly cost of that role, let alone the suggestion that US losses, expenditures and activities would be conveniently static.

But don't let little details like reality and actual quotes get in the way.

Personally I predict it is going to get worse as the attacks have become far more sophisticated and organised lately, so I'm thinking that 1,000+ dead US soldiers might even be a conservative estimate.

There has been little to no increase in either the sophistication or success level of those attacks that have been successful. In fact, the more the Iraqis try to coordinate and organize, the more screwed they are - where they (and all guerilla forces) are most easily successful is in relatively spontaneous, opportunistic attacks with no planning or coordination, by individuals to two-three man teams.

Not bad considering Saddam didn't even seem to have any WMD in the first place or that as Rummy has said they may even have been looted by the very fanatics that weren't supposed to get them in the first place! Not to mention the fact that Iraq seems to be about to lurch from a secular state into a fundamental one, or that Iraq's nuclear scientists seem to have fled to Iran who, wait for it, has an even more advanced nuclear programme than the Iraqis...

Nice speculation.

I feel an Oliver Hardy quote coming on...

Discuss...

This troll isn't at the level of Laurel and Hardy.

**Victor Galis** · July 12, 2003, 20:04

Originally posted by The diplomat

I hope you are not an American. If you are, then you are a traitor for that kind of comment.

Ooh, not supporting war criminals is treason now?

**SlowwHand** · July 12, 2003, 20:07

Michael, are you busy?
I have my rope, but I could use some help.

**The diplomat** · July 12, 2003, 20:11

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Ooh, not supporting war criminals is treason now?

First, noone is a war criminal. The war in Iraq was just.

Second, Odin specifically wished americans dead. That is what is treason if he is a US citizen. There is a huge difference between criticizing or not supporting your government and wishing your own soldiers to be killed. The first is ok, the second is not!

**Kidlicious** · July 12, 2003, 20:12

It's not a nightmare scenario, but it sure isn't turning out like Bush said it would. It will get worse too. It's obvious that the administration can't handle it, and they really don't have any ideas that will help them.

**Victor Galis** · July 12, 2003, 20:19

Originally posted by The diplomat
First, noone is a war criminal. The war in Iraq was just.

Just

Just in whose eyes? A preemptive war is never just, especially now that the threat that was claimed proved to be nothing but Generalissimo Bush's lies. If any country needs regime change, it's this one.

Second, Odin specifically wished americans dead. That is what is treason if he is a US citizen. There is a huge difference between criticizing or not supporting your government and wishing your own soldiers to be killed. The first is ok, the second is not!

Treason requires action, or do you want to start rooting out and punishing thought crime?

**MichaeltheGreat** · July 12, 2003, 20:21

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Michael, are you busy?
I have my rope, but I could use some help.

I was thinking a charter transport to Cuba or Iraq might be better - why mess up a good rope?

**SlowwHand** · July 12, 2003, 20:23

Good point. Let's do the Iraq trip.
Cuba's going to be busting at the seams.

**Kidlicious** · July 12, 2003, 20:26

You guys are yellow.

**MichaeltheGreat** · July 12, 2003, 20:28

So you'd rather have the rope than a nice charter flight?

**Kidlicious** · July 12, 2003, 20:35

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
So you'd rather have the rope than a nice charter flight?

You guys are all talk.

**Hueij** · July 12, 2003, 20:37

I feel an Oliver Hardy quote coming on...

Here is another fine...

I hope you are not an American. If you are, then you are a traitor for that kind of comment.

Oh my god, here I am thinking McCarthey was dead already... Glad I'm not American...

**The diplomat** · July 12, 2003, 20:37

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Just

Just in whose eyes?

I think the thousands of Iraqis that were beaten, tortured, maimed by Saddam's henchmen on a daily basis, would consider it a just intervention. Wouldn't you if you could now live free from Saddam's barbarism?

A preemptive war is never just, especially now that the threat that was claimed proved to be nothing but Generalissimo Bush's lies.

Attacked Iran.
Invaded Koweit.
Used chemical warfare on Iran.
Used chemical warfare on civilian population.
Tried to build nuclear weapons.
Tried to build large stockpile of chemical wepons.
Tried to build large stockpile of biological wepons.

That is not a threat to you? Would the world be better off with that kind of person still around?

Saddam was an evil bastard! I sure don't mind seeing his regime gone. And again, I bet you there are lots of Iraqis that feel the same way.

The bottom line is that we got rid of an evil, despotic regime that tortured and murdered millions of innocent people. We did a good deed.

Treason requires action, or do you want to start rooting out and punishing thought crime?

I was not speaking of his actions. I don't know his actions. But the words were treasonous in nature.

**Kidlicious** · July 12, 2003, 20:37

You guys have to make up for you real lives by threatening people who can't slap you upside your heads.

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Nightmare Scenario: Over a thousand dead US soldiers and a bill of around $125bn...

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