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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sirotnikov

    Y'know, I think the Arabs have good reason to be anti-Israel.

    You know that is a very smart reply to a question that I haven't asked.

    I did not ask whether the Arabs have good raeson to be anti-Israel.

    This thread, isn't even about people being anti-Israeli.

    It's about anti-semitism and how it is used and perpetuated by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
    It's because the identity of Israel is constituted by being a Jewish state. I know that one can convert to Judaism but it is not easy and I gather is not actively encouraged. So it's largely true that Israel is a polity based on race. Arabs are anti-semtic in a corresponding fashion to the way in which Israel is pro-semitic.

    Presumably, it would also be the case if large numbers of non-Jews wanted to emigrate to Israel that there would be massive internal opposition to this because the non-Jews might eventually become a majority (this is one reason the right of return is opposed by Israel). Consider the hammering that the UK would get if it based it's immigration policy on considerations of race. Consider the hammering that Australia still gets over its "White Australia" policy even though that has long been discontinued. The only people that want to do so are the BNP and National Front, and you know what everyone thinks of them.

    In short, Israel is a state that is at conflict with modernity which has, to its credit, largely decided that statehood based on race is an anachronistic and repugnant idea.

    Now the Arabs have just as much reason to detest the United States, Britain and other powers which forced the seeds of the current arrangement on them in a peremptory fashion. So one would expect their hatred not to be directed at only the Jews. And in fact it isn't - and we, in the West, wonder why these people are prepared to fly aircraft into buildings.

    I imagine that New Zealanders would feel incredibly angry and resentful if say, the US, decided that New Zealand was to become an Indonesian Muslim state and moved them all here and partitioned the country. So would any bunch of people.

    However, there is no question of removing all the Jews from Israel. Whatever the history of their coming, it would be genocidal to forcibly remove them. But something must be done and Israel has to give up quite a bit - they hold all the cards and are largely in the wrong on this one.

    And the fact that you seem to think that Imaams telling their followers that evil greedy jews are buying their lands, is a legitimate anti-Israeli criticism, just proves my point.
    I think that this is over the top and plainly wrong. But calling Israel a racist state is not too much of an exaggeration.

    But, frankly, most of this would disappear if Israel did, which shows that Arab opposition is really to Israel and not to Jews per se. Or do you think that if Israel ceased to exist that Arabs would mercilessly bomb bagel shops in New York? Somehow I don't think they would.
    Only feebs vote.

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    • #32


      "They hate us, they really do! So therefore we are justified in massacring Palestinians"

      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment


      • #33
        I know that one can convert to Judaism but it is not easy and I gather is not actively encouraged.

        Neither is getting a living permit in most Western countries, not to say becoming a citizen.

        Luckily, soon you won't have to become an orthdox jew to become a citizen.

        Oh, and there are other ways to gain citizenship.
        urgh.NSFW

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sirotnikov

          You know, I'd hate to ruin a good party, but Ming and MtG have rather short tolerance for jew-bashing, be it amusing or not.
          Well then, plainly Jew bashing posts should be deleted. So should posts that assume that everyone who is less than enamoured of Israel is an anti-semite.

          I don't think much of Israel, but I actively participated in having a Nazi holocaust denier and his mentor (a former Hitler Youth member) thrown out of my old university. I did the latter because I think holocaust denial is wrong and has no place in a University since it is inevitably (and was in this case) just a means of Jew bashing.
          Only feebs vote.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


            "They hate us, they really do! So therefore we are justified in massacring Palestinians"

            Free Iraq from American Occupation!

            urgh.NSFW

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Azazel
              I know that one can convert to Judaism but it is not easy and I gather is not actively encouraged.

              Neither is getting a living permit in most Western countries, not to say becoming a citizen.

              Luckily, soon you won't have to become an orthdox jew to become a citizen.

              Oh, and there are other ways to gain citizenship.
              Yes, but what do you think would happen if non-Jews looked like becoming the majority in Israel. Are you telling me that the Likudniks and those to the right of them would put up with it?
              Only feebs vote.

              Comment


              • #37
                Free Iraq from American Occupation!


                Free Palestine from Jewish Occupation!
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #38
                  More and more, the focus shifts from 'Jew' to 'Israeli'. The vast majority of Israelis ('cept the Religious) don't care about where do the people come from, as long as they behave the same they do. That's the problem with the alienation from the arab population. They are different culturally, and are part of the same culture Israelis are at war with. Since I resent the way the arab society works, I am very much one of those Israelis, too.
                  urgh.NSFW

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    More and more, the focus shifts from 'Jew' to 'Israeli'.


                    Many Israelis here claim they are the same thing .
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                      Free Iraq from American Occupation!


                      Free Palestine from Jewish Occupation!
                      Hell, free both!
                      Only feebs vote.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Azazel
                        More and more, the focus shifts from 'Jew' to 'Israeli'. The vast majority of Israelis ('cept the Religious) don't care about where do the people come from, as long as they behave the same they do. That's the problem with the alienation from the arab population. They are different culturally, and are part of the same culture Israelis are at war with. Since I resent the way the arab society works, I am very much one of those Israelis, too.
                        This sounds like the BNP's manifesto.
                        Only feebs vote.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          i hate israel but i love jews
                          "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                          'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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                          • #43

                            Many Israelis here claim they are the same thing

                            One is an evolution of the other.

                            This sounds like the BNP's manifesto.

                            I guess the BNP are getting lots of bad rap.
                            Seriously, though, It's a known fact that BNP's leaders are RACIST, so the manifesto doesn't mean much.

                            Free Palestine from Jewish Occupation!


                            Free Afghanistan!

                            And Hands Off of Vietnam!
                            urgh.NSFW

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              It's a known fact that BNP's leaders are RACIST


                              Why do you think Agathon compared your statements to it .
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                                Free Iraq from American Occupation!


                                Free Palestine from Jewish Occupation!
                                Free (native) America from European Occupation!

                                Free Ice Cream!
                                "I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie Allen

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