Rage against the Machine - Communism Vs. Capitalism (again!)

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sikander
No I don't want to debate it, especially with such a confused mind as yours. You believe envy to be a creation of a particular level of economic development, I believe it to be an inherent part of life amongst animals and man alike. There is a very good reason why the vast majority of people would side with my interpretation, namely because it is the correct one.

I'm not talking about utopia Sik. Of course people will always want to rule the world. They just wont be able to.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Vel,

How dare you espouse "Each according to their worth." and eschew "Each according to their need."

The storm troopers have their sights set now.

[Tuberski]

Vel,

Looks like I didn't get the "petering" I was hoping for.....



ACK!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Heck capitalists make the same arguement. You can't say capitalism is to blame as true capitalism wasn't being implemented.

Capitalism exists in so many places and so many forms that one would have to assume that at some point it has been implemented correctly. But I don't really see it that way. I think capitalism will work about as well as it does, no real improvement can be made to it, and eventually it won't work at all and we will choose communism.

[Velociryx]

I know Og....frightening, ain't it?

Seriously, I am TOTALLY for the social safety net....even stronger and more vibrant than we have today--one that includes universal health care and better wages for those who are disadvantaged SO LONG AS it comes hand in hand with retraining programs to get people OFF the dole.

And then, with that safety net in place, may the best man win.

-=Vel=-

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Kidicious

You could argue that any country was partially communist. Communism doesn't work when it is partially implemented. Now you can call them communist, but I won't agree with you. In fact I wont agree that any nation has ever been communist. You need to have a certain standard of living and a significant political heritage to make the move to a communist system. When the world is ready for communism most of the world will freely choose it without Imperialist nations to interfere.

So there has never been a single instance of communism in the history of the world, and everything else is capitalism? Well, there can be no substantive argument about the relative merits then, as there is no evidence for either case with such broadly different data sets.

Your dogmatic attachment to a harebrained theory cooked up near the beginning of the industrial revolution when Europe was undergoing a series of political and economic crisis' is very much like the sort of "arguments" one might have with a disturbed preacher man on the street. At best you can agree to disagree, and walk away shaking your head while they threaten you with imaginary reckonings to come.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Velociryx
3) I am not alone. I'm not the only one who thinks this way, and under your enlightened regieme, I will find them. We will band together quietly, in secret places where your security forces and "CommieCams" aren't. We will plot against you to either flee to an area you don't control and create our own state, or (if you control everything) we will pick our ground carefully and fight like hellspawn for it.

4) You and yours will never be secure so long as even one of us lives, because each day we survive uncaught is another day we can wake the sheep from their slumber by showing them hope for a better life.

5) If you kill me, it won't stop me. I'll become a martyr for standing up against your oppression, and will become tenfold more dangerous to you.

6) My reason for taking up arms against you will have nothing to do with competition for resources. If I wanted your resources, I'd have been a good little lamb and taken what you handed down from on high, but my motivation is something else. It is the fire that burns in the soul that your regieme cannot extinquish (though it would dearly love to).

So....I'm ready when you are.....Comrade....

-=Vel=-

Bud, remind me never to get on your bad side.

[Velociryx]

Back with a roar, Tuber....

-=Vel=-

[Tuberski]

Time for a new thread, too.

ACK!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
No incentive?

Here's an incentive for you....the incentive I would have if I was living under your thumb.

1) I *do not* want your hand out. I don't want or need your charity. Keep it. I'm not one of your damned numbered masses, my name is Christopher David Hartpence. Remember it, cos if the revolution comes, I'll be nipping at your heels until you kill me. And I'll force your hand, too. I won't bow down to the party, and I won't play by your cozy hive rules. I will make my own future, control my own destiny, and live my life as *I* wish to, and the Party and the state that it creates can burn in a festering pit if they try to prevent me from being who I am.

2) I am a strong person. An individual. The state does not know my wishes and desires, which run beyond the meager pittance you would be handing out as my "fair share." My effort and ingenuity will determine my lot in life, not some party boss who barely knows me.

3) I am not alone. I'm not the only one who thinks this way, and under your enlightened regieme, I will find them. We will band together quietly, in secret places where your security forces and "CommieCams" aren't. We will plot against you to either flee to an area you don't control and create our own state, or (if you control everything) we will pick our ground carefully and fight like hellspawn for it.

4) You and yours will never be secure so long as even one of us lives, because each day we survive uncaught is another day we can wake the sheep from their slumber by showing them hope for a better life.

5) If you kill me, it won't stop me. I'll become a martyr for standing up against your oppression, and will become tenfold more dangerous to you.

6) My reason for taking up arms against you will have nothing to do with competition for resources. If I wanted your resources, I'd have been a good little lamb and taken what you handed down from on high, but my motivation is something else. It is the fire that burns in the soul that your regieme cannot extinquish (though it would dearly love to).

So....I'm ready when you are.....Comrade....

-=Vel=-

That's because you believe your entire self-worth is based on your income and wealth. You won't be able to handle it.

That's it for me folks. The rest of the commies can have their last say. It's been fun.

[Velociryx]

No fear, Brother Rav....no fear.

-=Vel=-

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

You'ld have many an arguement from libertarians and others as to whether true capitalism exists.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Capitalism exists in so many places and so many forms that one would have to assume that at some point it has been implemented correctly. But I don't really see it that way. I think capitalism will work about as well as it does, no real improvement can be made to it, and eventually it won't work at all and we will choose communism.

Careful here thats the same line of thinking that got everyone in a lather before only we were talking about communism. The example of China, USSR etc. kept being brought up only to be dismissed as improper implementation and not true communism.

Anyhoo onto the next thread.

[Ming]

Yes... on to the next thread...