SERIOUS question to devout/knowledgable Christians, about Jesus dying

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Lets start over heh, I'll simplify my question, you can give a simpler answer if you wish.

How does Jesus dying, forgive our sins?

My understanding was that only Jesus (God made man) could overcome the power of death, and once he overcame death all those who had died could be restored to eternal life.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by obiwan18


Good question Vesayen

CS Lewis uses the analogy of a bridge.

One of the problems with the Jewish sacrificial system is that one must continue to sacrifice for forgiveness from sins.

The problem is that the sacrifice cannot be sufficient to atone for sin.

Jesus satisfies the requirements because he is sinless, yet suffered the same temptations as we do. As God, his death allows men to reach God, as a man, he allows God to reach us.

Im gonna go eat, I'll beback in 10 mins or so to respond heh.

[germanos]

IIRC, Jesus death has very little to do with our private sins, and thus Jesus death does not create forgiveness for our sins.

Jesus death was done by god, to take away the 'inheritable (?) sin' from humaniny.
The inheritable sin, or original sin, being the sin brought upon humanity by Adam and Eve spoiling the paradise.
God doomed them after eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, and humans would be sinners for ever since.

God send his son to humanity, in order to take back the doom he had cast upon humanity, so that from then on, people would be responsible only for their own sins, and not from the one their great-great parents had committed in paradise.

So Jesus death does not bring you forgiveness from your own sins, but it brings forgiveness for Adam and Eve's sin in paradise.


At least, that is what I figured it was all about.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by obiwan18


Good question Vesayen

CS Lewis uses the analogy of a bridge.

One of the problems with the Jewish sacrificial system is that one must continue to sacrifice for forgiveness from sins.

The problem is that the sacrifice cannot be sufficient to atone for sin.

Jesus satisfies the requirements because he is sinless, yet suffered the same temptations as we do. As God, his death allows men to reach God, as a man, he allows God to reach us.

Please note while i do not contest your statements as valid within the assumptions and system of the christian religion, from the standpoint of Judaism:

1. The "jewish" system is God's system for the Jewish people not a "jewish system"

2. Sacrifice for sin needs to be repeated, just as faith must be maintained. And repentance must be repeated.

3. The modern "jewish" system is based on repentance, prayer and acts of charity. Sincere repentance is sufficient to achieve atonement.

4. The question of atonement for original sin, as opposed to individual sin, is not meaningful in Judaism, which does not hold a concept of original sin.

5. The general approach to individual sin is different, since Judaism does not ask humans for divine perfection, but to acheive their potentials as human beings (see Nachmanides) . Ergo repentance with a goal of meeting Gods expectations is possible - man is not inevitably condemned for sin - though individuals should still repent as if they were sinners, both becuase no man can see all his own sins, and because as members of a community, we have responsibility for the sins of all.


And of course forgive me for any errors in the above post

[Ben Kenobi]

1. The "jewish" system is God's system for the Jewish people not a "jewish system"

Point well taken. Thanks for the clarification. Of course, God set the whole system up for the Jews, not the Jews setting up the system themselves.

though individuals should still repent as if they were sinners, both becuase no man can see all his own sins, and because as members of a community, we have responsibility for the sins of all.

How can such sin be said to be an individual's sin?

[Ben Kenobi]

So Jesus death does not bring you forgiveness from your own sins, but it brings forgiveness for Adam and Eve's sin in paradise.

Part and parcel. Our individual sin and inherited sin both have been atoned by Christ's death.

[SlowwHand]

By entering into a covenant with God to give us life.
Jesus is the testator. The word testator comes from the greek word diatheke (Strong's GK 1242) meaning "Covenant".
Hebrews 10:29 and 12:24 says that the new testament (of life with God) requires that the testator (Jesus) die.
Where there is a covenant blood is required.
Jesus as testator had to shed blood while being a willing and obedient sacrifice.
His sacrifice was our ransom.
This was the only way we could have an entrance into a new covenant of life with God.
Life is in the blood as Leveticus 17:11 shows.
The blood on the altar ransoms our soul.