Abortion Quest

[Az]

It's esp. difficult to me because I am a utilitarian.

I am inclined to a solution that a commitee of social workers and welfare workers would assess the chances of this baby growing in acceptable conditions.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by obiwan18
Any documentation for the effect on the abortion rate of the mother year?

I'll see what I can find. My information source relates specifically to East Germany.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dissident
I'm sorry Che but I can't take your word for it this time.

You aren't a woman, and don't know what it's like having a child inside of you and then killing it.

Too bad, so sad. From the article DanS linked (btw, DanS, my info dealt with East Germany):

Russian women came to view abortion as a routine procedure, doctors say, comparable almost to a tooth extraction. A study in 1994 found that the average Russian woman had three abortions by the end of her child-bearing years.

Most of my friends who've had abortions don't talking about the horror of killing a living being that they were nurturing inside them. One or two did, but the general opinion of most of these women is "Thank god I had an abortion! Wish I'd been more careful."

If our society's churches weren't always blasting our socety with "Abortion is murder!" then women wouldn't aborb that message, not even subconsciously. People don't come up with their values out of their own heads, we are taught them, we are surrounded by them, the very air we breathe is infused with them (this is a metaphor). Even the pro-choice movement teaches the message that abortion is not a desirable choice (I'm not saying it is, either-but their argument doesn't stem from the fact that being pregnant is dangerous and having an operation is dangerous, albeit less so than carrying the fetus to term).

If we had the same attitude as the Russians have, I doubt that many women would be traumatized by having an abortion nor kill themselves as a result.

[MikeH]

The attitude's very different even in this country. Here there's very little abortion debate at all. It's basically a settled matter. We've got what pretty much everyone thinks is a decent set of laws and that's it.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Monk
Fun,

A good husband very much has a part in the decision to have a fetus aborted through discussion with his wife.

He's not a part in the decision, because it's totally either-or. You can't possibly compromise like it was next year's budget being passed or something like that. Of course the couple should talk about it, but as the woman has the right to ignore his view completely - I'm sure you'll agree she has that right - it doesn't make sense.

Geez guys -- yes, in the end the woman has the right. But if she never discusses this with the man she supposedly shares her life with, she is being extremely inconsiderate and insensitive.

[Ben Kenobi]

If we had the same attitude as the Russians have, I doubt that many women would be traumatized by having an abortion nor kill themselves as a result.

Assumes that the Russians deal well with their abortions. I go to a Russian ministry, with lots of recent immigrants from the former soviet union. One of the common accounts is that they wish they had been shown pictures of their children. They feel they would have made a very different choice.

No matter how you dress up an abortion, the mother feels a sense of loss. Some take this loss harder than others.

Dissident:

It's not just the church, many woman report depression regardless of their religious affiliation. So the source of their pain has to come from somewhere else.

If everybody is doing it, why do some feel guilty? Why don't we have more women openly admit to abortions?

[Dis]

well my answer is what I was getting at before.

Individuals have different sets of moral values. These are instilled by their parents, not society.

[The Mad Monk]

'Roe' Wants Abortion Case Reversed

DALLAS, June 17, 2003


(AP) The former plaintiff known as "Jane Roe" in the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court case that legalized abortion sought to have the case overturned in a motion filed Tuesday that asks the courts to consider new evidence that abortion hurts women.

Norma McCorvey, who joined the anti-abortion fight nearly 10 years ago and says she regrets her role in Roe v. Wade, said the Supreme Court's decision is no longer valid because scientific and anecdotal evidence that has come to light in the last 30 years has shown the negative effects of abortion.

"We're getting our babies back," a jubilant McCorvey said at a news conference while flanked by about 60 women, some who sobbed and held signs that read "I regret my abortion."

"I feel like the weight of the world has just been lifted off my shoulders," said McCorvey, 55.

Sarah Weddington, the abortion advocate and attorney who originally represented McCorvey, did not immediately return a call seeking comment. A representative from the National Organization for Women also did not immediately return a message.

Allen Parker Jr., McCorvey's attorney, said he could not remember any other landmark case in which the plaintiff has asked to have it overturned.

"I think the new evidence will show the court what they thought was good will turn out to be an instrument of wrong," said Parker, who is with the San Antonio-based Texas Justice Foundation.

McCorvey filed the motion with the federal district court in Dallas, which ruled to legalize abortion in Texas before the Supreme Court ruling. The Texas attorney general's office and Dallas district attorney each have 20 days to respond to the motion.

McCorvey and her attorneys asked the federal court to consider more than 5,400 pages of evidence, including 1,000 affidavits from women who say they regret their abortions.

McCorvey was a 21-year-old carnival barker when, pregnant for the third time, she sought an abortion. She agreed to be the plaintiff in a lawsuit seeking to overturn Texas' anti-abortion statute.

The Supreme Court decision came after she had the baby. It was the third child she put up for adoption. McCorvey publicly identified herself as Jane Roe in 1980.


© MMIII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/17/national/main559102.shtml

[Spiffor]

According to the discussions I had with aborted women (in their twenties), Abortion DOES have psycholgical side effects, and does do damage.
The memory that you have killed a potential child is haunting (although I'd suppose not as much as a birth-death), and the abortion in itself is a painful memory.
A friend of mine, during her abortion, complained to the abortionist he was getting too rough and it hurt. The abortionist answered "You should just have taken care" (I can't translate the arrogance of the expression). This memory is not going to fade away anytime soon.

I also have experienced this kind of damage first hand : I have a friend who's already mother of one child, and who was in her early prenancy with another child. Needless to say, the father of the first child is awawy, and it is unlikely she spends her life with the father of the second. Add very limited resources in the mix, and the fact that she has to study, then you know the second child would have ruined all three lifes in the family.
When I convinced her to abort for second time, despite her oath never to abort again, she cried. Mucho. She knew she had to undergo this trauma again.

In answer to Che : I live in a society where anti-abortionism is pretty much a dead cause, and where anti-abortionists are widely seen as inhuman *******s who don't give a rat's ass about the woman. However, women know very much, in any society, that an abortion means the destruction of a potential life they could have bore. And they don't like this idea. I'm glad Che has met women who could abort without moral problems. But from my experience, these women are just extremely rare.