How did the area of Europe advance so quickly?

[Lancer]

You will never have to try to remove your family to freedom while under fire from communist bordeguards, who were chosen for their sadistic history.

That's kinda nice, believe me, I know.

[Bereta_Eder]

the point is that this has nothing to do with freedom. it was pure interests which sometimes destroyed the freedom they said they protected.

noone believes that cause its just aint true.

[Lancer]

Sure, damning. Yet we won the cold war. If it was me I'd have brooked no deals with the devil, but still we won.

[Bereta_Eder]

and believe you me lancer, you never saw a friend tortured to death by a dictatorship the US wholly supported.


i havent but others have.

[Lancer]

I suppose a cynic could look upon freedom as a self interest.

[Bereta_Eder]

maybe, but a blinded man would definitely see itnerests as freedom

the point is, you were fighting for your country's survival. not for anyone else's freedom. you were only to happy to screw and destroy the freedom of other countries if that meant serving your national interests.


tell me why are you better than communists?

you arent. you're worse, to the satelite countries you had under your boot!

(of course the indigenous commies should have been more smart too)

[Lancer]

I believe that winning made all other things secondary to those who fought the fight. We supported dictatorships that were both cruel and not enemies, because we had all the enemies we could handle. At least that's what I believe led to the situation you describe paiktis. Like I said, I'd have no deal w/ the devil, but I wasn't in charge,

We won though, you are free.

[Bereta_Eder]

things are not so simple. you cant say you have won when you have been destroying what you say you were fighting for.

as far as such countries like mine are concerned you and the commies have been defeated. because you have. the dictatorship was made to stop the socialists from getting to power. they did get to power however after toppling the dictatorship and with the motto greece for the greeks. why would such a motto be necessairy if that was the case already?

so we had to choose between dictatorship and the commies? thats not so much of a choice nor does it make one better than theother (although even communism was better than dictatorship like in yugoslavia for example)

[Lancer]

I believe we can both agree that we have made good use of the free exchange of ideas tonight that would be impossible under soviet communism, paiktis. I've enjoyed this discussion. I've enjoyed our freedom to wage this debate.

You are a stubborn cuss pal, the best sort of people.

[Bereta_Eder]

not thatthere are not huge responsibilities to the greek fascists mind you, but you supported them after they got to power and that is unforgivable and took away any moral justification you could ever have IMHO.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Lancer
I believe we can both agree that we have made good use of the free exchange of ideas tonight that would be impossible under soviet communism, paiktis. I've enjoyed this discussion. I've enjoyed our freedom to wage this debate.

You are a stubborn cuss pal, the best sort of people.

nor could we have it during the dictatorship, you defender of freedom my ass .

[Lancer]

Correction, I never claimed they were our defender of freedom. I just said they were not our enemy. Our enemy was communism. I basicly said that's all the enemy we could handle, maybe more than we could handle, which if you saw our weapons in '77 you might better understand.

[Lancer]

The philosophy of 'the enemy of our enemy is our friend' made for some strange bedfellows, to be sure. Thankfully that's history.

[Lancer]

...unless of course it's YOUR history, which it obviously is.

Goodnight paiktis.

[Bereta_Eder]

Your friend was the same if not worse than your enemy, mein freud that's what I'm talking about.