How did the area of Europe advance so quickly?

[FrostyBoy]

I want to keep this on the off topic forum, but most of us are civers here, and we all know that playing a european civ can limit your ability to grow, as quick as, say the American Indians or the Aboriginies even!

So what was it exactly that gave the Europeans the edge?

I'm asking this because I believe that the game Civilization needs to change dramatically in order to function better (and I also think that would be more fun too - this is for those "but real doesn't mean fun" type of ppl )

[Bereta_Eder]

competition?

[FrostyBoy]

Yeah ok, if you believe that to be the answer, be more descriptive, explain the process.

[Bereta_Eder]

i'm too bored now

[FrostyBoy]

Go to bed

[Lancer]

The industrial revolution centered on the north sea, and spred in ever decreasing circles from there.

England, Holland, and Scandinavia experienced the first of it. The industrial revolution can best be defined in its early stages by the amount of railroad track per capita, or square mile or something. I've a book on the spread of this all important revolution somewhere, I'll hunt it up tommorrow if I have time. It has figures on RR capacity.

Civ spreads sci in a manner that isn't realistic in the least. For instance, potery was never a guarded secret, niether was most early sci. If you see a wheel you can wrap your mind around it. Sci spreads, rapidly. Technical capicity...happens very slowly.

[notyoueither]

Good question. You will find many different answers.

Successive waves of invaders bringing new ideas and social upheaval?

The patronage of princes and potentates?

The Protestant Work Ethic?

The availability of classical knowledge kept safe by Muslim states?

Even the Black Death as a leveler and an impetus for change may be claimed by some.

Europe's is an exceedingly complex story. I doubt there is a simple answer.

[Lancer]

Rough seas actually.

[Bereta_Eder]

I thinkk it was simply the competition. Too many people in a pathetic small peninsula of the eurasian continent fighting eachother all the time for land/resources/influence.

Staying alive can motivate pretty revolutionary things.


it's not always through war, sometimes it's competition pure and simple between countries for prestige/influence etc.

And contrary to what some may believe the echange of ideas wal always very easy in Europe between different city-states, kingdoms, states.

[Bereta_Eder]

The turning point for what we are seeing today was definitely the industrial revolution but also the french revolution as well as the development of socialistic values.

[Lancer]

Rough seas. The technical acumen required to overcome the local ocean conditions developed the technical capacity of the people. For hundreds of years the europeans struggled to overcome the seas, and by doing so learned to overcome. While other peoples lived with their surroundings, europeans learned to shape them. In doing so they became the first technical people, and this is how so few people spread colonialism through the world, defeating all comers. It wasn't natural for the people of India to form a line and spew bullets like a machine while suffering under and overcoming enemy fire. This is how the Brits and other euros came to consider themselves superior, they had in hundreds of years developed foundation based in technical matters that it would take hundreds of years for other peoples to assimilate into their make up. You could give these peoples the sci, but they could never use it like they can in Civ. You could fire guns at american indians, and they will learn to fire them, but not to build them. That's technical. Though they had themselves developed many skills, they lived their lives without the technical challenges of communication by sea.

It's no accident that the Brits controled the sea. They were more challenged by it. To them it just made sense to turn their ships of the line into fast firing artillery platforms while the French and particularly Spanish focused more on bringing lots of extra men and boarding. The solution came first to the Brits because it had to. Same with all big gun dreadnaughts. Seperated by a couple of hundred years but in each case the Brits got there first. No accident, but a technical imperative.

You could show such developments to other europeans and they could follow suit. You could show it Snoopy to your aborigines and they would worship it. The foundation of technical understanding is lacking.

[Bereta_Eder]

Spanish were there long before the Brits even knew what was happening.

[Lancer]

To early ships capable of exploration, not to the industrial revolution. The Brits took the greater numbers of Spanish apart with their ships/ artilery platforms, assisted in the case of the armada by the weather and superior tactics. The Spanish with their larger crews got blown to bits.

Francis Drake, remember?

[Bereta_Eder]

yeah but they were nt there first as you said. And britain in general has a very mediocre role in the advancement of europe compared to continental countries. island people you know

[Lancer]

Greek philosophers were not presented by the towering waves of the North Sea, though they did come up with some fancy bull****.

The Brits were the first into the machine age. I'm not going to argue about this Paiktis, it just is, as they sky is blue.