Question for communists . . . .

[JCG]

Since some of them can apparently take corporate sponsors without feelings of guilt too, it's not very surprising. You don't see many "to the letter" communists these days....they seem to be bunch of strange hybrids (not like that's "bad", you know....).

[MrFun]

Hey, hey -- I'm not saying that communism is not a legitimate ideology. I can respect communism.

MY question is what was posted in the initial thread -- how can you be communist while enjoying the luxuries of capitalism??

[Cruddy]

MrFun, if Communists went round blowing up Disneyland as a symbolic gesture towards Capitalism, would that make you happy?

There's having an ideology, and then there's expressing it in a meaningful manner.

What are you trying to do, encourage them?

[Boris Godunov]

While I'm not a communist, I must say I find such questions a little odd. Are communists not supposed to enjoy themselves?

[Spiffor]

Despite being communists, we happen to live in a capitalist society. Since we couldn't have changed it yet, we have no choice but to live in it, for the time being.

Communism isn't an ethics of poverty nor of ascetism. Actually, one of the hopes of communism is that everybody can afford a comfortable and enjoyable way of life. I don't see any problem with doing so in the capitalist society if we can afford it.

[Giancarlo]

Well the only problem I have is I can't possibly see how communism could ever function properly.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Fez
Well the only problem I have is I can't possibly see how communism could ever function properly.

Same here, if you are talking about Marx's utopia of a classless, stateless society that wouls function wonderfully just because people would be nice to each other (this is a tad less stupid, but Marx' utopia is worryingly close to Adam Smith's utopia as he seems to believe in an invisible hand)

Communism, in the meaning of giving the economic power to the workers rather than the stakeholders, and in the meaning that the organized community (= State) makes sure everybody gets an education, a job, and a roof, this communism has no reasons not to work, if it avoids dogmatism and dictatorship.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Communism, in the meaning of giving the economic power to the workers rather than the stakeholders, and in the meaning that the organized community (= State) makes sure everybody gets an education, a job, and a roof, this communism has no reasons not to work, if it avoids dogmatism and dictatorship.

The other problem I have with that is this power could be mismanaged. Sure it isn't managed 100% excellent by the stakeholders, but I highly doubt the workers would know how. We see this problem in Venezuela where Chavez is giving power to the workers, only problem is the workers have turned against him because everything went to hell.

Capitalism will always outpace Communism (every form of it) in my honest opinion.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Fez
The other problem I have with that is this power could be mismanaged. Sure it isn't managed 100% excellent by the stakeholders, but I highly doubt the workers would know how. We see this problem in Venezuela where Chavez is giving power to the workers, only problem is the workers have turned against him because everything went to hell.

I'm actually for a form of semi-representative democracy at workplace, where there is a competent leadership that gets elected, but then which is specialized in the management job. I also don't think the 1 man = 1 vote should strictly apply within a business, so that all the professions can get a decent representation, even if they are low on staff.

And I think the leadership should take care of the survival of the business first, and then of the best condition / wages for the employees. Profits should be only used for future investments making the business healthier, not to feed some fat cat.

Actually, my vision of an ideal business is pretty similar to what it is in the capitalist society. Except that the capitalist has no say anymore.

[mrmitchell]

Communism is one of the worst systems of government there is out there.

Spoiler:

The only thing out there that's worse is Democracy.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I'm actually for a form of semi-representative democracy at workplace, where there is a competent leadership that gets elected, but then which is specialized in the management job. I also don't think the 1 man = 1 vote should strictly apply within a business, so that all the professions can get a decent representation, even if they are low on staff.

And I think the leadership should take care of the survival of the business first, and then of the best condition / wages for the employees. Profits should be only used for future investments making the business healthier, not to feed some fat cat.

Actually, my vision of an ideal business is pretty similar to what it is in the capitalist society. Except that the capitalist has no say anymore.

That is fine to have as your opinion. But just keep in mind you are speaking with a capitalist hardliner here.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Fez


That is fine to have as your opinion. But just keep in mind you are speaking with a capitalist hardliner here.

Don't worry, there is no way I forget

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by MrFun
MY question is what was posted in the initial thread -- how can you be communist while enjoying the luxuries of capitalism??

It´s a "know your enemy" thing

[mrmitchell]

Don't you see? They're trying to suck up the resources of the capitalists, so they can have better odds for the Final Revolution.

[Lung]

I don't expect self-proclaimed communists to shun material goods, as material goods can be produced in a communist country (albeit not very good material goods), but i do expect communists to not act like raging capitalists.

Take for example my uncle, communist to the core, who owns a race-horse! Isn't that the "sport of kings"? Hardly a communist enterprise! (oxymoron as it is)

Why do communists eagerly invest in shares? Worst of all, why do they treat the working class like lepers? Perceived moral superiority is hardly about social equality, so why do they act that way?

If you ask me, it sounds like gross hipocrisy on their part