Job interviews

[Provost Harrison]

I am currently working for an agency and I wouldn't if I had the choice...but the fact is I have to take work where I can get it. It does annoy me how much the agency is getting paid for my hard work And the company annoys me that despite my hard work and brains and decisiveness and leadership and ingenuity, they are still not prepared to give me a permanent contract, despite the fact that if I leave they are in the sh*t...simple fact is, I am waiting for a better offer, but I still feel betrayed...

[TCO]

Cry me a river. You got to stop whining, PH. Nobody owes you a living. Even if you got that piled high and deep, nobody owes you ****. All you get is what you can command from selling yourself. Work on the product or work on the sales. But quit whining.

[Provost Harrison]

Oh come on off it, you know as well as I do that this isn't true...I see imcompetents at high levels who get their job through (a)being related to someone in the company or (b)f**king the boss. Don't be so naive...

[TCO]

I also know that you whine like a baby. Really.

[Provost Harrison]

No, I've seen the only way to succeed is to f**k your way to the top or have nepotism on your side. Personnel departments are the most incompetent of the lot - they seem to expect perfection yet are the most useless bunch of sh*ts in existence...that is the way the world works my friend, not through some magical utopian meritocratic method...

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by GP
Why are you using an agency? You are an idiot to do so. There incentives are different. think about the biz situation. Do a Porter's model.

Why disregard an avenue of opportunity. Agencies are free (in a sense) and provide a few extra opportunities that I would not otherwise have found. I don't like them, and I always was wary of (but now simply distrust) them. But other than that you can still use them as part of the searching process. For its not as if I'm not searching through job ads, sending speculatives and using the old foot in the door through nepotism tactics, and more. I'm using any and every means at my disposable.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison No, I've seen the only way to succeed is to f**k your way to the top or have nepotism on your side. Personnel departments are the most incompetent of the lot - they seem to expect perfection yet are the most useless bunch of sh*ts in existence...that is the way the world works my friend, not through some magical utopian meritocratic method...

It's a bit of both. You have to look good in management's eyes, that's true. It's not purely based on ability but it's the same for everyone in every job. You just have to deal with it, play the game and get on. If the money really is that bad and they really can't get on without you then leave (or threaten to). If you are as indispensable as you think then handing in your resignation letter will have an effect.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Big Crunch


Why disregard an avenue of opportunity. Agencies are free (in a sense) and provide a few extra opportunities that I would not otherwise have found. I don't like them, and I always was wary of (but now simply distrust) them. But other than that you can still use them as part of the searching process. For its not as if I'm not searching through job ads, sending speculatives and using the old foot in the door through nepotism tactics, and more. I'm using any and every means at my disposable.

1. I would suggest reading Rites of Passage at $100,000 plus for some information about search agencies, their incentives, practices, pitfalls, etc. There is a place for headhunters in your search, but I suspect you have not really thought it thorugh in a sophisticated manner.*


* The HH has much less incentive than you do to place you in the job that you want o be in or to help you get the extra 5,000 bucks. He's way more worried about losing the commission overall than about getting a slightly larger comission based on higher first year comp. Your incentives are different, proviedd you are resonably marketable, which you are.

-----

I was being provocative, because you're one of the poster's I most admire. (And I did way overstate the case, just for shocke effect.) But really, do a little more reading on HH effectiveness. I've done 3 involved career changes and learned a lot about their usefulessness and how they can often distract you from a better career search.

--------

Oh...and read the Parachute book. The data is US, but the basic insights are very good.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
No, I've seen the only way to succeed is to f**k your way to the top or have nepotism on your side. Personnel departments are the most incompetent of the lot - they seem to expect perfection yet are the most useless bunch of sh*ts in existence...that is the way the world works my friend, not through some magical utopian meritocratic method...

I never claimed the world was a meritocracy. I just think you keep expecting Mommie to interced and make people play fair. If stuff sucks where you are, start slutting around for other work. And maybe a quick look at the man in the mirror wouldn't hurt either.

[Provost Harrison]

No, this is what I mean, the world isn't perfect...it's like walking down on an up escalator, that is what I mean...there is no such thing as a chance. And a look at the man in the mirror? I don't see the problem...

[TCO]

The world is not a perfect meritocracy. Granted. There is not such thing as a chance. Bullkaka. Get off your ass and go travel. Go conquer a small Central American Nation. Make love to Hindu princesses.

Or failing that, move to the place where the biotech jobs are...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
And a look at the man in the mirror? I don't see the problem...

You're a better man than I am then, Gunga Din. And just about everybody else in the world. Seriously, you can't think of anything to do to bring your game up? You are the Michael Jordan of biotech but the coach just won't play you enough?

[Dauphin]

To be fair to PH, the job market is total crap here in the UK. Since I started my last job a few years ago I saw the companies falter sector by sector, starting with manufacturing and knocking on into the services, and eventually my firm was hit at the tale end of last year.

PH is right that finding a job is a nightmare, for two linked reasons - companies and firms are not increasing recruitment for financial reasons, and people are staying in their current jobs when they would normally have moved onto bigger and better things. This leads to the effect that new jobs are not being created even though unemployment hasn't actually increased. I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that in the past year the average length of time a person is unemployed has gone up, the overall unemployment has remained relatively constant and that the numbers in part time employment is up.. That's my grass roots view.

In such an environment its no surprise to me that Rich can't find a permanent job in Hull/Yorkshire. I can't find a decent one and I have the whole of London as a place to look.

That said, I do think it is too easy to use that as an excuse for not being able to get a job and not an impetous to put more effort into finding one. I feel that getting a job in this climate is not really about ability, its about being the right person at the right time. What you have to do is get noticed such that you are there when the job arises. You've got to be in it to win it.

[TCO]

I agree. Throw multiple lines into the water. You will catch a fish for sure. But imho HH are distracting. You are better off making a list of your contacts and calling ten a day. Or even just going throught the phone book or what have you.

ARe you just looking for the same job as before or are you open to changes in career? For instance being on the finance/CFO track inside a company? Maybe a science-related company would be agood match? I might know some people. Dish...

[Dauphin]

I've applied for commercial and practice environments, managerial through graduate positions, financial, accounting, research and marketing roles etc.

I'm working a broad base, and tailoring my CV to the firms or companies I am applying to. Ideally I want a job that allows me to finish my qualification, then I can do anything I want knowing that is under my belt. I will accept any permanent job that gives me a good career grounding or part-time one that keeps things ticking over.