Femenists want to make masculinity a hate crime.

[Japher]

A crime is a crime, the motive of hate is irrelevant.

of course i don't agree with this

What about that kid who fed that ladies dog to an alligator? Of course it was a crime, but did also indicate motive for a future or greater crime? The idea of protecting people is a lot different than punishing them.

I don't know where I stand on hate-drime legislation. Yet, rehabilitation of someone who commited a crime out of hate, a hate which they still carry, is a lot harder than rehabilitation of someone who just needs some anger management or one who resents what they have done.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Japher - where the hate crime issue stalls is this:

Let's say the kid hates cats and the neighbors, and just injures the cat by throwing a rock at it.

Then take case two - the kid is just looking for "entertainment", doesn't care, and picks the cat at random because it was the first live thing he could grab to feed the gator.

Which is worse?

Or take the Matthew Shepard case.

real:
Two straight white males beat a gay male nearly to death (actually or allegedly triggered when he hit on one of them in a bar), then they tie him to a fence post in a remote area where they know he'll die due to lack of medical treatment for his injuries.

hypothetical:
Two straight white males beat a straight white male nearly to death because they were going to rob him, then got pissed that he only had $15.00 on him, and no credit cards or other valuables, then they tie him to a fence post in a remote area where they know he'll die due to lack of medical treatment for his injuries.

Which is worse?

IMO, they're equivalent, and should be punished equivalently.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Has anyone ever considered that quite a few women really like to stay at home and raise kids rather than being a Fortune 500 executive or President?

And since feminism is about women being able to have a choice of what to do with their lives, there's nothing wrong with this. Bunnygrrl is a homemaker.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Azazel
Girls, generally have an easier time socializing, due to both natural differences, and social constructs, so they're less likely to choose civilization as their favourite recreational activity. Also, girls, due to a social construct, deal less in computers.

All the wone I knew in colege were very comfortable with the computer and spent as much time on average as men on it, but for different uses, which is my point.
I would be willing to bet a huge amount of money that if you attempted to teach a class in a completely gender neutral way, men and women would still have a different distribution of preferences at the end, based on nature, not nurture. Men and women have to have different ranges of preferences by nature since in nature males and females are not interchangeable.

[Sava]

What about that kid who fed that ladies dog to an alligator? Of course it was a crime, but did also indicate motive for a future or greater crime? The idea of protecting people is a lot different than punishing them.

I don't know where I stand on hate-drime legislation. Yet, rehabilitation of someone who commited a crime out of hate, a hate which they still carry, is a lot harder than rehabilitation of someone who just needs some anger management or one who resents what they have done.

You misunderstood my point, or perhaps I didn't do a good enough job explaining it. I'm not saying motive is irrelevant. I'm saying the motive of "hate" is irrelevant. EXAMPLE:

A guy kills another guy for screwing his wife.

A guy kills another guy because he's black.

I don't see why the first guy should not get the same punishment. As for the alligator/cat thing. EXAMPLE:

Kid feeds cat to alligator for fun.

Kid feeds cat to alligator for money/revenge.

Both should get the same punishment. I think you are getting confused on the question of overall motive. I'm talking about motive for individual crimes, not motive in distinguishing between crimes. For example... a guy kills another guy accidentally in a bar fight. That's not murder-two... it's manslaughter because of motive and intent.

[Sava]

real:
Two straight white males beat a gay male nearly to death (actually or allegedly triggered when he hit on one of them in a bar), then they tie him to a fence post in a remote area where they know he'll die due to lack of medical treatment for his injuries.

hypothetical:
Two straight white males beat a straight white male nearly to death because they were going to rob him, then got pissed that he only had $15.00 on him, and no credit cards or other valuables, then they tie him to a fence post in a remote area where they know he'll die due to lack of medical treatment for his injuries.

Which is worse?

IMO, they're equivalent, and should be punished equivalently.

EXACTLY!

[Jon Miller]

my cousin reccomended 'wild at heart' or something to me

Jon Miller

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I told the cop to take a swing at me in slow motion, and I'd demonstrate - and I showed how I'd used open hand deflections and restraining holds.

Slow-motion kung-fu?

OMG! Are you "The One"?!?

Wait ... you must be because I love you!



Seriously, that's a cool story. I would have been majorly pissed off if someone tried to pull the trick she tried on me. I reckon I'd just get really angry and make myself look guilty. Which would be dumb, of course.

[Elok]

A friend of mine(admittedly a fairly right-wing friend) once told me a story about a social worker who believed very strongly at one time that gender differences were entirely the result of social programming. Accordingly, she raised her son without any television she considered sexist, encouraged him to get any toys he wanted, etc. At the age of five or six, the boy asked for a barbie doll. The lady was very excited and asked him how he wanted to play with his barbie. He responded that he would cut its head off for fun. His mother quickly reevaluated her worldview, to put it mildly.
The story is almost certainly apocryphal but I think it's funny, and I'm pretty sure it's what would happen if you tried such an experiment IRL. I just remembered it now.

[Jon Miller]

hmm

the book is

Wild at Heart: Discovering the Secret of a Man's Soul

it si religious, and I ahve not read it, but it is recomended to me

I think it deals with the male thing

I am sure there are other books out there also

Jon Miller

[Nubclear]

I was once told that all men through the ages of 13-30 should be locked up because they are a threat to society.

[St Leo]

Elok, how do you know that that's not the way a girl would have wanted to play with a Barbie doll?

A statistical sample of one has always been worthless.

[Gibsie]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay
Women in unconventional fields like engineering and the sciences have been just as willing to make the same sacrifices but have been ignored/ passed over time and again. It still happens to this very day.

I see it, yes. At my labs, they're okay with having women as the basic managers, but every position without exception above that is filled by a man. And I don't think it's becuas the ladies are less ambitious. Mind you, that's only one company, I hope others aren't the same.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


Slow-motion kung-fu?

OMG! Are you "The One"?!?

Wait ... you must be because I love you!



Seriously, that's a cool story. I would have been majorly pissed off if someone tried to pull the trick she tried on me. I reckon I'd just get really angry and make myself look guilty. Which would be dumb, of course.

Well, it was a pain in the ass, but she brought it on herself, and she got the ride in the back of the cop car, not me. The thing about getting angry is that it impairs your judgment, so you have to learn to defer it until you have a good time and place to release the anger. Otherwise, you can just get yourself in a ton of unnecessary trouble.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Gibsie
I see it, yes. At my labs, they're okay with having women as the basic managers, but every position without exception above that is filled by a man. And I don't think it's becuas the ladies are less ambitious. Mind you, that's only one company, I hope others aren't the same.

It's unfortunately very common, almost universal. IMO, that's one of the main drivers to girls doing so much better in schools than boys (in the US at least) and focusing so much more - they have to do better now to have even a chance to compete on an "equal" basis later.