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**Solly** · May 27, 2003, 17:06

"Playing chess doesn't make one intelligent."

No, but being very good at chess is an indicator that you are.

**Kropotkin** · May 27, 2003, 17:09

Well, we know that the fastest men on the planet tend to have black skin. Tells us very little about nearly nothing really. It doesn't for example have to tell us anything about the mean for example.

**Imran Siddiqui** · May 27, 2003, 17:11

Well now... a perhaps decent thread turned to racist trash... wonderful.

**Drogue** · May 27, 2003, 17:18

Well no, but it has been shown in many studies that the amount of fast twitch muscles a person has denotes how fast they can run, both with or without training. It has also been shown that the people with the most fast twitch muscles tend to have black skin. I do not know about the mean, I have not seen any evidence, but when it comes to "explosive" sport (anything needed sprinting or jumping) the top flight of that sport tends to be dominated by black people. It is just something I notice. It may say nothing to you, but as an athlete, it matters a lot to me. I know I will never win a major title, because of my genes. However much I train, I will never be that fast. That to me, is a big thing.

It's also a bit of a rant against the amount of political correctness we seem to have in this country. While I am all for tolerance, and treating everyone equally, I think we should respect that there may be physical strengths and weaknesses to each ethnicity.

Indeed, the study on the village in Kenya was enlightening, that their bodies are that much more efficient than anyone elses, that they can dominate much long distance running. It was something to do with it being secluded, and thus more enclosed, meaning that the genes are more likely to be contained there. Quite a phenominon. Same would go for Sherpa's in Nepal, one managed to climb Everest in 16 hours, whereas it normally takes abotu a month. He also managed to stay at the top without oxygen. There also seesm to be a general genetic disposition to that kind of endurance there.

**Dauphin** · May 27, 2003, 17:19

Ethiopians and Kenyans are often regarding as great long distance runners. They are not regarded as great sprinters though.

So to say black people are great sprinters appears incorrect. To say so is only slighly more refined than saying that humans are great sprinters. So on that basis I would say that acknowledgement of athleticism via association to skin colour is ill-advised.

I guess what I mean is, to say that the fastest runner in a group will probably be black is not the same thing as saying that the black guy is most likely to be the fastest runner in a group.

**Drogue** · May 27, 2003, 17:21

Imran: What is racist? Anyone who says there might be a difference between different groups of people? Wouldn't we all be guilty of that, whether it be because of political persuasion or anything. Bods maybe was being a bit far, but I wouldn't call this racist trash.

**Imran Siddiqui** · May 27, 2003, 17:23

What is racist?

Saying blacks are inherantly not as smart as whites because of skull size? You don't think that's racist?

**Drogue** · May 27, 2003, 17:24

Big Crunch: I was just making the point about the fact that the whole of the Olympic 100 metre final was black. Maybe I should have been more specific, and said west-indian/african-american/african-european. I am not talking about specifics though, I just want to say that there may be physical differences between ethnic groups, between geographical groups and between people with different genes. My point was meant to be taken as a general thing, not specific about one particular ethnic group. I just cited those as examples.

Do people think there is no difference between ethnic groups?

**Drogue** · May 27, 2003, 17:27

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Saying blacks are inherantly not as smart as whites because of skull size? You don't think that's racist?

No, I think saying one ethnic group is better or worse overall, or should be treated differently is racist IMHO.

Are you saying that stating any difference between ethnic groups is racist and wrong? So saying that black people get less sunburn is racist? Or saying that Kenyan's or Sherpa's have better endurance is racist?

**Solly** · May 27, 2003, 17:41

Drogue, gotta remember that Americans have even bigger problems with political correctness than we do. The flood of immigrants continues and the PC problem will get even worse.

**Ming** · May 27, 2003, 17:50

Nahhh stewie... people don't have a problem with PC stuff... they just have a problem with your racist crap.

The complaints I got were pretty mixed... Euro and US.

**Imran Siddiqui** · May 27, 2003, 20:34

No, I think saying one ethnic group is better or worse overall, or should be treated differently is racist IMHO.

Are you saying that stating any difference between ethnic groups is racist and wrong? So saying that black people get less sunburn is racist? Or saying that Kenyan's or Sherpa's have better endurance is racist?

Because any difference and saying that races aren't as intelligent as others is the same?

I simply cannot believe that you think that saying one race is naturally stupider than the other is NOT racist?! That is the defintion of racism! You don't think saying that one race is smarter is saying that race is better?

**Solly** · May 28, 2003, 06:10

I simply cannot believe that you think that saying one race is naturally stupider than the other is NOT racist?! That is the defintion of racism! You don't think saying that one race is smarter is saying that race is better?

Can you be racist and telling the truth at the same time, Imran?

If you approach the issue sensitively and stick to the facts as we have tried to do in this thread, you can accurately display the differences between races/origins.

Otherwise, if we censor everyone on this issue, discussions about "racial superiority" and studies about will go underground and carried out by groups with an ulterior motive.

**MikeH** · May 28, 2003, 06:20

Maurice and Steven – milestone men

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=701

Two players, one a grandmaster, the other a 2300 FM, taking part in the US Chess Championship. The landmark is that they are both African American. For 155 years the tournament drew only white men, but last year the format was radically changed, opening it to dozens more players – including, for the first time, women. More.

The first black grandmaster (and the second). It's not lack of intellect that's the problem, just lack of exposure. Are Russians naturally more intelligent than Western Europeans or Americans or do they just have more people playing chess more regularly?

**Worthingtons** · May 28, 2003, 07:24

This thread wasnt intended to go down to the 'blacks are inferior' route, but nevermind about that, the thread turned from one troll to another

On the Origanal issue of Asylum tho, I must say that what Mike says is excellent except we dont live in a perfect world, this is reality we're dicussing, and while it would be wonderful if we welcomed immigrants with open arms and they totally embraced our culture and us thiers ect, but it just dont happen. Like the American gun culture - the damage is done and now the seperation will remain that way probably forever.

ps , Mike i've just looked up your profile, is your name really Mike Hunt?!? I find it hard to believe your folks would name you that.

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