Arab countries treat Palestinians far worse than Israel

[Imran Siddiqui]

So what you are saying is that two wrongs make a right?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Eli
What can I say? The true reality of the Middle East is very simple. Arabs can kill Arabs, Jews cant.

No one is denying you're more civilized. You just aren't as civilized as you should be.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So what you are saying is that two wrongs make a right?

No, what i'm saying is that the world considers the Arabs to be primitive urge-driven animals.

Blood feuds between families because of mere insults? It's ok, they're Arabs.
Arab goverments kill Arabs? It's ok, they're Arabs.

Ariel Sharon goes to the temple mount and the Arabs start the violence? It's ok, they were provoked, it's not like they can reason things and decide that violence is wrong, they're Arabs, you provoke them and like a mad dog they start biting.

Heck, in the 1920's when Jews made a demonstration on the temple mount and the Arabs started a wave of violence(extraordinarily similar in it's circumstances and the discource in the Israeli sociery to today's Intifada)? It's ok too, the mad dog was provoked.

The Arabs killed an Israeli? The Israelis should restrain themselves, think about co-existance, any retaliation against terrorist targest is wrong because Jews cant use violence. Settlers that burn couple Pal trees are demons, they hurt the poor Arab falahs, they must use their reason and commit no acts that even vaguely look like vengeance.

The Israelis killed an Arab? His brother is an Arab, an animal, he cant control his anger, he cant reason, it's perfectly obvious that he will blow himself up in a pizzeria, it's understandable for him to kill innocents in revenge.

The Kuweitis are expelling 300,000 Pals who were integrated in their society because 5,000km from there Yasser Arafat supported Saddam? It's ok, they're Arabs.

Israel denies the citizenship of a convicted Israeli-Arab terrorist? It's wrong, it's not democratic.

Israel invades S. Lebanon and maybe cooperated in the Sabra and Shatilla massacres? It's the end of the world.

Another massacre occured a bit later, without any Israeli involvement whatsoever? No one gives a damn.

Israel invades Lebanon after countless terrorist attacks? Naked aggression.

Lebanon is a Syrian puppet, under Syrian occupation, used by Syria as a tool against Israel? That's ok, they're Arabs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who says it is ok? Remember we just took out Saddam, and haven't been saying nice things to the Syrians.

You Isrealies just don't get it. Like che says:

No one is denying you're more civilized. You just aren't as civilized as you should be.

The problem with you Isrealis is that because everyone else is an ass, you think you should be able to be an ass too. Even though you have a democratic based government and some civil liberties. You Isrealies don't realize that with more civilization comes MORE responsibilies.

The Arab countries aren't at that same level, so what can you push? They'll just ignore it anyway because they are ruled by dictators.

The problem with Israelis is that they want to be known as being civilized, but don't want any of the responsibilies that go along with that designation.

[Cruddy]

Ah, but would there be any Palestinian refugees without the creation of Israel?

Where does the fault lie - with the Arabs who torture and murder, or with the ones that drove them out? Is there any point to giving blame? I don't think it serves a useful purpose.

Political solution is the ONLY way to stop the violence. Blood for blood otherwise.

And I'm sickened by the bleeding on both sides.

[Eli]

Who says it is ok? Remember we just took out Saddam, and haven't been saying nice things to the Syrians.

Oh come on, we both know that you took out Saddam because of the American selfish interests. Which is perfectly fine by me(as long as it fits Israeli selfish interests ).

I'm not trying to justify certain Israeli actions, i'm not claiming they're ok because the Arabs do them and even worse.

But look on it from this perspective :
NY Times, CNN, the US State Department, you, CyberGnu, the French Foreign Ministry, Blair, chegitz, Firela, etc, etc, etc, all scream like insane whenever Israel does something wrong, yet almost totally ignore the same or worse actions when they're done by Arabs.

The Dictatorship vs Democracy argument is wrong, we both saw how much anti-Saddam, or anti Kim Jong Il propaganda can be spilled when a will to do so exists.

To me it's a matter of singling out the Jew.
I already brought a similar example before. If a Jew merchant commits a second degree murder of a gentile, while 9 gentiles commit 9 first degree murders of Jews and it's the Jew who gets the death penalty while the gentiles all get 1 year in prison.

The murders are still murders, the victims are still dead, and yet only one of the killers, the Jew, is punished.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Cruddy
Ah, but would there be any Palestinian refugees without the creation of Israel?

Where does the fault lie - with the Arabs who torture and murder, or with the ones that drove them out?

Both.

The problem is that the guilt of one side is completely ignored.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Like I said, with civilization comes increased responsibility. You want the civilization, but not the responsibilty. It is that simple.

If you were a dictatorship, it wouldn't nearly be the same, but because you consider yourself a democracy, more is expected of you. We know people like Saddam and Kim and Mugabe are jerks, it just doesn't matter because they don't give two ****s. However, the people of a democracy might if the world comes down on them.

As for that 'Jew' crap... the more you say that stuff, the less sympathetic people are going to be to you. It's like a Jesse Jackson saying everything is about race, eventually people tune out. Next you'll be laying Holocaust guilt. Because, of course, the county that has the most Jews in the world (even more than Israel, IIRC) is trying to keep the Jews down. Please .

The more you blame others for your problems, the more others will tune out.

Maybe I should say this entire War on Terrorism is simply singling out the Muslim .

[Imran Siddiqui]

The problem is that the guilt of one side is completely ignored.

Because we never talk about the Arab terrorists at all . Because Palestinians aren't considered all terrorists around here or anything . Get the cobwebs out of your eyes. Perhaps you are guilty of singling out the Muslim?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


No one is denying you're more civilized. You just aren't as civilized as you should be.

Are the Arabs as civilized as they should be? If not, then why is all the criticism reserved for the Israelis?

[DinoDoc]

Because Israel is a country that has pretensions of being a democracy and from time to time get called on by others to actually behave like one.

[Imran Siddiqui]

DD: Yep, Yep

Think of it this way Caligasta, as a parent would you expect more of your son who is going to a top college and has always gotten good grades, or your son that has been in and out of juvinile detension and gets horrible grades in school?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The problem is that the guilt of one side is completely ignored.

Because we never talk about the Arab terrorists at all . Because Palestinians aren't considered all terrorists around here or anything

Specifically in discussions concerning persecution of Palestinians, I have never heard anyone mention anything about the misery that Arabs contribute. Perhaps I missed it, but I doubt it. If you really think you and those one your side of this issue are being fair, then I challenge you to find a quote in which you criticise Arab treatment of Palestinians.

The point is that is you are really concerned about the harm being done to the Palestinian people, then you will criticise everyone involved - not just Israelis. You say the Israelis have greater responsibility because they are a democracy, but does that completely absolve Arabs of responsibility? If not then where is the criticism?

[Imran Siddiqui]

The point is that is you are really concerned about the harm being done to the Palestinian people, then you will criticise everyone involved - not just Israelis. You say the Israelis have greater responsibility because they are a democracy, but does that completely absolve Arabs of responsibility?

I'm concerned about the harm done to the Palestinians by a so-called DEMOCRACY! Yeah, the other Arab states are a bunch of ******, but that's no news... they are a bunch of brutal dictatorships.

You think Saudi Arabia would get nearly as much blame for what the US is doing at Guantanamo? NO, because we are expected to act in a higher standard because we are an advanced democracy!

It's as simple as that.

I have never heard anyone mention anything about the misery that Arabs contribute.

Because the Palestinians we are talking about live in the West Bank and Gaza. AFAIK, those areas aren't controled by any Arab state.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Because Israel is a country that has pretensions of being a democracy and from time to time get called on by others to actually behave like one.

I understand that, but if anyone claims to be concerned for the welfare of the Palestinians, they should want to call more attention to those who are the worst perpetrators, surely.