Hey! Belgians!

[August Borms]

Originally posted by Mercator
So how did you Belgians vote?

I could vote at last (living in Holland), so I voted for RESIST (Dyab Abu Jah Jah, even)!

(If I'd shake August Borms' hand we would generate electricity )

Perhaps, I vote Vlaams Blok, but I do support Resist

Why can't the flemish part unite with the Netherlands, while Valon part will unite with france?

I don't think so... The Flemish/Walloon nationalists should stuff it and the whole federal system should be disbanded to finally create a single united Belgium.

Then you should have voted BUB

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Azazel

wafelijzerpolitiek

Waffle warfare?

Yeah man, that was pretty nasty.

Actually, "waffle iron politics" basically meant that each time Flanders got something, Walloon had to be given something in return in order to get their consent, and vice versa. That led to ridiculously wasteful expenditures, especially in infrastructure.

[Mercator]

The reason a federal system was installed was exactly because unitary Belgium didn't work. Remember the era of "wafelijzerpolitiek" and communitary warfare?

Probably not (I've never lived in Belgium, so I'm much less familiar with the situation, although I do watch the Belgian news regularly... Because I live in Holland, I also don't feel particularly Flemish, I feel Belgian, so that's why)... And well, I do realise there isn't much interest especially on the Flemish side. But if we expect the Israelis and Palestinians to ever make peace, so can we... If only the Flemish lose their French inferiority complex.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
You couldn't give a brief description of each party, could you? I'm sure my picks are really embarassing in a Belgian way.

Agalev: greens
VLD: liberals
SP.A: social democrats
CD&V: christian democrats
Vlaams Blok: Flemish nationalist and far right
NVA: Flemish Nationalists (but not far right)
PVDA: communists
Vivant: hard to describe, sort of idealistic populists, rather centric in overall but naive

[Buck Birdseed]

Spirit?

[Colon™]

I forgot Spirit, I'd describe them as social liberals, somewhere between VLD and SP.A. (although they formed a cartel with the SP.A in these polls)

[Buck Birdseed]

You don't have any nice, left-wing Nationalists à la Scottish Nationalist Party and/or non-extremist socialists?

[Mercator]

Originally posted by August Borms Perhaps, I vote Vlaams Blok, but I do support Resist

Whoa!

Then you should have voted BUB

Never heard of it. I'm afraid I only know the bigger ones. And Belgian politics hasn't exactly been too clear lately. Parties are renamed and merged, VU burst apart into God knows how many parties, people jump back and forth between every party, create new ones, etc.

[Buck Birdseed]

Why did I get green? I voted "**** the environment" every chance I got!

[Az]

so, who are the FN?

[August Borms]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
You couldn't give a brief description of each party, could you? I'm sure my picks are really embarassing in a Belgian way.

Here's something I copied from the Europa Universalis forums:

RESIST

New list formed by a merger between the communist PVDA and the Arab European League list of Abu Jahjah. Bound not to get many votes. Estimate is 2.5% max. Weird coalition: right-wing arab nationalist and left-wing communists. Nevertheless: common points: anti-capitalism, anti-USA. Want a better social security, equal rights to everyone, right to vote for immigrants,... No Walloon counterpart.

AGALEV

Agalev stands for Anders Gaan Leven (Live Otherwise). The only green party in Belgium. Environmental concerned party. Pacifist (strong opposer of supporting the Iraqi War) among others. Estimated votes between 8%-10%. Expected to lose votes after two of their ministers resigned during past term. Also lost credibility and their clean image during the crisis in Antwerp. Important points for them: integration of foreigners, green in the cities, changed mobility net (less cars in the cities). Got quite some resistance because of their rather laxist drug law. The law will prolly be revised by next government. Problem was not so much the law itself, but how it failed to make all things clear, it was a tad bit vague. Walloon counterpart: ECOLO

SP.A.

The Belgian socialist party. Elder name SP (Socialistische Partij) was changed in SP.A. (Socialistische Partij Anders - Socialist Party Otherwise) a few years ago to give the party a younger image. Quite succeeded transformation for the socialists. New chairman Patrick Janssens succeeded in turning the weels. The socialist ministers were some of the few that didn't get alot of criticism during past term: Minister of Social Affairs Frank Vandenbroucke did quite well. So did Minister of 'Begroting' (Damn! What's the word - Budget Control?) Johan Vandelanotte. Estimated votes: 18%-20%. Will win votes compared to past elections. Only downside was the behaviour of quite some socialists in the Antwerp Crisis. Important points: a good social healthcare system, cheap (free) public transport, security in the traffic, a decent pay for everyone. Walloon counterpart is PS

VLD

Belgian Liberal Party and as for now the biggest party in Belgium. Took over from the Christian-Democrats after past elections. VLD is the party of Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt. Estimated is their votes will more or less stay the same. Somewhere between 22%-25%. Will probably battle with the Christian-Democrats for the title of biggest party. VLD is one of the few parties that got out of past term without any real scandals. Reasonable governing in general. Some did well, some others picked up criticism along the way. Lately Minister of Justice Marc Verwilghen seems to pick up some with all the quabbles with the prison personnel and his reasonable laxist gesture of letting criminals go to free prison space. On the other hand, Guy Verhofstadt himself is quite popular and is regarded highly for his governing. Took slight criticism though for his slightly manipulated crime rates. Also our Minister of Foreign Affairs, Louis Michel became very popular because of his hard stance on the USA. Important points: Tax reforms, reformation of the educational system, reformation of the immigration system, social and financial position of the 'small shop owner' (zelfstandige - what's the correct word?), tax benefits for big companies among other things. Walloon counterpart is MR (Mouvement Réformateur of Louis Michel).

NV-A

Founded after the split-up of the old VU (Volksunie), the NV-A is the party of Geert Bourgeois. NV-A stands for Nieuw Vlaamse Alliantie (New Flemish Alliance) and is a Flemish Nationalist Party. They however do not support an immediate Flemish independant state, but more freedom for Flanders within Belgium, a more lose confederation so to speak with less Flemish money flowing to Walloon goals. Expected to struggle between 3.5%-5%. Important points: Flemish emancipation, integration of foreigners, a 'people's insurance' with basic coverage for all risks for all Flemings, lowering of the company taxes, solidarity with Wallonia on the base of clear agreements, better mobility. Of course no Walloon counterpart.

CD&V

Much like the socialists, the Christian-Democrats also changed their name to give the party a younger image. The elder CVP (Christene Volkspartij - Christian People's Party) was changed in CD&V (Christian-Democrats & Flemish). First term in the opposition for a long time for this party. Governed Belgium for over 20 years straight. Expected to get between 20%-23% of the votes and to battle with the VLD for the Biggest Party Title. Party of former Prime Ministers Jean-Luc Dehaene, Marc Eyskens and Wilfried Martens. Current candidate is Stefaan De Clerck. Important points on their program: reliable and cheap healthcare for everyone, social security for elderly people, different reforms to encourage family life and activities, more money for security, taking care of drugs through prevention and sensibilisation, no to the allowance of drugs itself, keeping the current educational system with some slight reforms. Walloon counterpart is PSC

VLAAMS BLOK

Founded as a renegade group of the old VU because of its then weakening stance on Flanders (end 70's). Fastest growing party in Belgium. 1.4% in 1985, +/- 15% now. Known for its hard stance on different subjects. Opposition party since it's founding. A cordon sanitaire still lies around the party. The cordon is a mutual agreement between the other parties to never govern or negotiate with the Vlaams Blok. Supported by some media as well, opposed by others. Expected to gain votes because of the Antwerp crisis. Polls claim Blok will lose votes, past elections have shown though that the Vlaams Blok always gains more votes than was predicted in the polls. Expected to gain 15%-17% of the votes. Important points on their program: Flemish independance alltogether with a possible confederalist stepstone, tax reforms to encourage family life, no to abortion and euthanasia, only political refugees from Europe have the right to immigrate, Belgian nationality can only be handed out after proof of succeeded assimilation, illegal people should be sent back, near-to-zero-tolerance on crime, no to the monarchy, a pay for the parent that stays at home for the children

The test also includes SPIRIT and VIVANT

SPIRIT went to the elections together with the SP.a, they are left of centre and they came from the now dead Volksunie (Flemish nationalist party)

VIVANT... they want to give everybody (even children) a base income and raise sales taxes to finance this, they scored around 1%

[Az]

wow,and I thought our politics were interesting.

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Why did I get green? I voted "**** the environment" every chance I got!

Probably because the only other clear "left" party is the SP.A which is going the same way as Labour (more populist/center), while PvdA is extreme-left. So anything in between would get you the greens.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Mercator
Probably not (I've never lived in Belgium, so I'm much less familiar with the situation, although I do watch the Belgian news regularly... Because I live in Holland, I also don't feel particularly Flemish, I feel Belgian, so that's why)... And well, I do realise there isn't much interest especially on the Flemish side.

If you'd followed it from nearby you'd realise it was unworkable. There were are a lot of conflicts because of policies that fit one side of the country but not the other. And as said previously, if one region wanted an infrastructure project they had to "bribe" the other side with goodies for their region. (hence wafelijzerpolitiek)
There are still such conflicts in matters that remained federal such as employment. The minister of employment in the previous govt was Walloon and several of her policies suited Wallonia but were even harmful to Flanders. Both regions have different needs which require different policies.
I'd even say the federal system has made living together with Wallonia a lot easier.

But if we expect the Israelis and Palestinians to ever make peace, so can we... If only the Flemish lose their French inferiority complex.

Germany and the US also have a federal system, it only makes sense when you have a diversified country. In fact federal Belgium has been cited as an example if the Palestinians and the Jews were to form a single country.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Mercator

Never heard of it. I'm afraid I only know the bigger ones. And Belgian politics hasn't exactly been too clear lately. Parties are renamed and merged, VU burst apart into God knows how many parties, people jump back and forth between every party, create new ones, etc.

BUB are Belgian unitarists. They exist for a while already but don't get a lot of of votes.