France issues 'please explain' to US

[Whaleboy]

Sloww: You have said it all about the American foreign policy. Out of the mouths of babes....

[Ned]

Originally posted by elijah
"is it your position that the people of Iraq do not want liberty?"

Not at all. All cultures evolve towards a more libertarian position. Im saying that they shuold not be pushed. They want liberty (i assume), but they want it their way, an Arab, Muslim way, not a Western judeo-christian way.

I do not disagree with this. We need to accommodate traditional values and religion with liberty.

Have you, though, ever hear the crying begging women and mothers who had escaped Saddam's Irag telling how bad it was to live under that monster and who begged, literally begged the US to help do something about it? While there can be differences in ways of life, there is no difference when a people want to live in a world of security and not of fear. When the fear comes from one's own government, something is seriously wrong.

I beleive there is a genuine happiness in Iraq that Saddam is gone. Americans can justifiably feel proud that we help "liberate" the Iraqi people.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by elijah
"French governmental traditions have been a slow evolution toward ever-greater absolutism, until people sick of the mismanagement overthrew everything, started a democracy that rapidly fell into mob rule, collapsed, and reverted to absolutism in another form for a time (Napoleon), after which it reverted to monarchy, for a time"

You ever been to France?

No.

[Whaleboy]

I fear that within a few months/years, that happiness will turn to dust.

The people who undoubtably have been hurt by Saddam are deserving of our asylum, and help. Is this reason to go to war? Is there a rebellion, with a clear number of people that are undoubtably against the dictator... a number of people that one can help militarily? No there isnt. Is Iraq attacking another nation? No. Has Iraq attacked anyone since '91? No.

War is unjustified. Simple as that.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by elijah
They are fun to read...

Not really. It was boring and in someplaces indicative of shallow thinking.

[Whaleboy]

Then post about its culture, its politics, its history etc when you have spent time there, looking at the people, the society the culture.

Do not take everything you read in the media and the history books, as truth. Use first hand information where possible. Second hand information tends to be rather sketchy.

[HershOstropoler]

Well MM, how absolutist was France over history? Maybe you want to dicuss the role of the Parlements in that regard? Or the provincial estates?

[Whaleboy]

"in someplaces indicative of shallow thinking"

Where?

[The Mad Monk]

So you cannot write about anything about something you haven't experienced first-hand?

What a myopic world view you've condemned yourself to.

[Ned]

You know what we need here on Apolyton, a member from the French right. I think most of the French posters here are from the French left. Not so? The problem we have with France today is coming from Chirac, a Gaullist. The Gaullists appear to French nationalists in strong contrast to the left who might approach anti-Americanism from a more traditional communist point of view.

[The Mad Monk]

Educate me, HO.

[Whaleboy]

"So you cannot write about anything about something you haven't experienced first-hand?

What a myopic world view you've condemned yourself to"

God what is this? "Lets Strawman Ben Elijah day?"

Of course one can write and speak about stuff with 2nd hand information, but it carries less weight than first hand information. When 2nd hand info leads to BS, I say so!

[The Mad Monk]

"Then post about its culture, its politics, its history etc when you have spent time there, looking at the people, the society the culture."

Your words, not mine.

[Whaleboy]

Figure of speech. Of course you can post about it, but dont expect me people to take it seriously, when and if they have better information available, which gives a different responce.

[Whaleboy]

Hypothetical situation. I am a nation that dislikes America. I speak against it, I reason against it. I am of equal economic but inferior military power.

What does America do?