Tweet
What do you mean when you say "justified"? Justified in your political view?
-
I'd rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me.--Patton -
Yes. And again, why should their opposition over Iraq warrant trade barriers?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Well, obviously, if you think they are right, and you do not have any loyalties above your own opinions, then no action would be justified.
So what are we doing here, jacking off?I'd rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me.--PattonComment
-
Let's say they were wrong for the moment. Then why would trade barriers be justified?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Originally posted by Spiffor
I also have another firend who loves the USA, but she has many problems.
Unacceptable American bashing : even ordinary girl could love the USA.
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
-
It is changing, and is already quite different from western europe. Short list:Originally posted by Kidicious
Oh bull. Our political system isn't changing. It's the same as it ever was, and just like the rest of the democratic world.
- role of money in campaigns
- institutionalised corruption in shaping policies
- fundamentalist influence
- extreme nationalist influence
- spoils system
- disfunctional media
- correcting function of the judiciary weakened
- much bigger role for character assassination
"It seems like you have already decided about us. The only thing that I'm trying to figure out is why you don't understand that we will have a bad taste in our mouths about it."
Well the Iraq episode has almost convinced me that America is a hopeless case. And I want all and every institutionalised political cooperation between Europe (EU, core EU, whoever goes along) and the US terminated. Why you would have a "bad taste", no idea. Maybe because you expect the whole world to love you?“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
-
In the meantime, I doubt it. There is a massive negative opinion groundswell against America going on. From some polls and personal experience, I get the impression that the 80 or 90 % who are against Bush's policies are blurring into being against America as such.Originally posted by Spiffor
Yes, Antiamericanism is indeed deeper in France than in other countries , partly because France isn't powerful enough to do its messianic mission, and witnesses the US doing their messianic mission. Nobody can doubt antiamericanism is more significant in France than in other places in the West.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
-
*Reading some posts on the last couple of pages*
The Americans view France as having hurt America (a flawed interpretation we all know, but still, many Americans hold that view), so America is going to hurt France back?
*** for tat, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Forgive me if I am missing something, but is that not destructive, irrational, emotional, and somewhat immatue?
Move on, get over it, and repair the damage done by Gulf War II, lets not prolong the pain, the wounds in international relations. I fail to see how that is doing anyone any good."I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:Comment
-
On topic :
This thread is about France asking for a smear campaign that is organized by the US government to stop. Whether these allegations are true or not are not the topic here, since nobnody knows what is going on in the Information section of the defense department.
My question is : IF the US government is actually promoting a smear campaign towards France, do you think it is OK, or do you think it should stop ?"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
-
France tried to smear the US to the entire world by effectively making them go to war w/o UN resolution. So no, if the US govt is promoting it, then they are right to do so!
Cheers
MattUp The MillersComment
-
Originally posted by Rothy
France tried to smear the US to the entire world by effectively making them go to war w/o UN resolution.
Pesky french, forcing a war on Bush. Horrible.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
-
I think that the whole smear campaign is childish regardless of who is promoting it. People need to grow up. France has embarrased herself. She really doesn't need more help now. And, yes, I still eat french fries.Originally posted by Spiffor
On topic :
This thread is about France asking for a smear campaign that is organized by the US government to stop. Whether these allegations are true or not are not the topic here, since nobnody knows what is going on in the Information section of the defense department.
My question is : IF the US government is actually promoting a smear campaign towards France, do you think it is OK, or do you think it should stop ?
Comment
-
Lincoln :
I'm glad to see you are reasonable
This whole thing should abate, and we should try (we personally at 'Poly) to stop it at a personal level
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
-
My angle on this "please explain" line is any dialogue is prefable to no dialogue.
Just sitting in your own corner and bad mouthing an ally (to anyone that will listen) that does something you don't like is a green light for further aggro.Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84Comment
-
Sorry, GePap, I dropped out yesterday. But I have been trying to figure out why the French right became "anti-American." We all know why the French left (as well as most of the European left) is anti-American. But de Gaulle and Chirac both seem to have lead France down a path that is seriously anti-American.Originally posted by GePap
It trully amazes me that garbage threads like this (didn't start like this, but turned into one right quick) can last so long! The geenral bias, ignorance, prejudice, its all just so amazing!
They all seem to work the same way: a group of self-righteous rightwingers get themselves nicely worked up on an anti-french froth, then some fool thinks they can reason with these people, and then it just degrades from there. These threads are always the same, and they lead to the same end, nowhere. i guess if this is how people want to waste energy, well, its thier business.
And in the long span of history, this little spat will mean as much as the Fashoda affair. (hmmm, what was that?)
Now, I proposed American anti-colonialism as a possible cause. However, one of the French posters here said that de Gaulle actually agreed with American anti-colonial policy. (Really?) What was French reaction when we sent our troops in to Vietnam in a major way? Did they see this as a noble effort to stop communism, or an American effort to take over IndoChina? If the latter, I can understand why de Gaulle would feel that the US had stabbed France in the back.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
Comment