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I agree. All those thousands of mass graves and bodies that the Iraqis are finding in the desert probably don't enter into the equation either.
How dare we pick on Cinderella.
How dare we pick on Cinderella.
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln -
Real easy to make black and white views like that when you don't have to make decisions.Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Alternative version:
You are actively supporting an authoritarian regime that sponsors terrorism against the world's largest democracy.
The American People should be ashamed of carrying Musharaf's water, pissing on the Indians.
Or you could just be really selfish and not do anything by cowardly sitting on the sidelines when **** hits the fan.
Oh wait that's what they do in Österreich.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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"All those thousands of mass graves and bodies that the Iraqis are finding in the desert probably don't enter into the equation either."
Whose equations? Washington's? Don't be ridiculous.
"How dare we pick on Cinderella."
I could have done without that mental picture.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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"Real easy to make black and white views like that when you don't have to make decisions."
I'm just Hersh.... or Dyl Ulenspiegel, if you prefer.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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I prefer Herr Rechtsberater.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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HO,
We know we get bad press all over the world for our relations with other nations. It goes with the territory. France should do the same. They chose their path, now they must deal with it.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Kidicious, if your leaders, your press, and certain uberpatriots would just acknowledge that and cut the selfrightous sanctimonious bull****, you would be in a much better light.
And we could concentrate on things like pointing out that Chirac is a pompous idiot.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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You don't expect our leaders to be self-rightous? Show me one leader who is not self-rightous. The only case where a leader will admit a mistake is if he is absolutely forced. They are always campaigning and so they are always self-rightous. I suggest that you French worry about your own matters more. I don't see any way you can gain by being so concerned with the faults of American leaders.Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Kidicious, if your leaders, your press, and certain uberpatriots would just acknowledge that and cut the selfrightous sanctimonious bull****, you would be in a much better light.
And we could concentrate on things like pointing out that Chirac is a pompous idiot.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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"You don't expect our leaders to be self-rightous?"
That's not per se the problem, and just not admitting mistakes is a bit different IMO.
The problem is the untempered selfrightousness. No diplomacy, no compromise, no doubts.
"I don't see any way you can gain by being so concerned with the faults of American leaders."
We Euros have to make a couple decisions about our relationship with you. Hence the interest in the continuing degeneration of your political system.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Man, this is a long thread. But after reading, I have two questions:
First, when de Villepin, and indeed the French, say that they are "allies" of the United States, what do they mean?
Second, do the Europeans recognize that when they attack Bush, for whatever reason, they are attacking America? Half the American people voted for Bush. Seventy percent approve of the way he is handling his job, particularly in the foreign policy area. While there are many in the US who agree with much of the anti-Bush sentiment held in France and in parts of Europe, but they are not in the majority.
What you must recognize therefor, is, at least for the present, there is no real difference between anti-Bushism and anti-Americanism to Americans.
But, back to the first question, what do the French mean when they say we are "allies."Last edited by Ned; May 17, 2003, 17:00.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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Well Ned, under your logic, when you attack Chirac, you are attacking France? 80 % voted for him, and 90 % approve of the way he is foreign policy in this area.
But I suppose you genuinely hate France anyway, so it doesn't matter.
As for "allies" - a defensive alliance that serves no realistic purpose.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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thats france saying "remember those good times we used to have?""I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott CardComment
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Well, I for one am offended by that remark, but I guess it doesn't matter since less then 50% of the American people didn't vote for me.What you must recognize therefor, is, at least for the present, there is no real difference between anti-Bushism and anti-Americanism to America.Comment
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Did I attack Chirac? No. The reason why is because the dispute is not about Chirac, it is about France. The reason it is about France is that the French people supported and continue to support Chirac.Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Well Ned, under your logic, when you attack Chirac, you are attacking France? 80 % voted for him, and 90 % approve of the way he is handling his job, particularly in the foreign policy area.
But I suppose you genuinely hate France anyway, so it doesn't matter.
As for "allies" - a defensive alliance that serves no realistic purpose.
As to the "ally" bit, yes, it is a defensive alliance only. However, given France's behavior with Turkey, France is not even a reliable defensive ally.
As to the "no purpose," I would agree. France clearly has indicated that it will not help defended the US. We should also make it clear that our days of defending France, if ever again that might become necessary, are over.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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I suppose we are.
Democracies are 'of the people, for the people, by the people', etc., so I suppose the people do bear the responsibility of their leaders' actions -- in a way that those under a dictatorship don't.No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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