Matrix Reloaded

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm not sure that matrix-within-a-matrix is the right answer, but those aren't reasons it has to be wrong. Choice can be artifical. If the human minds in the matrix (the primary one) reject the idea of the matrix, then they are allowed to be given a false 'choice' to leave that matrix and enter what they believe to be reality, but is really just another matrix. Having been given their choice, they no longer reject the second matrix because they believe they are where they are of their own free will. So maybe it's not so much a matrix within a matrix as it is parallel matrices.

It's kind of like a magician's force. They present you with a question that appears to make their trick random, as if you were telling them exactly what they should do. But in reality they are just interpreting your answer in such a way that they get to do what they were planning all along. The difference is that the audience's minds are satisfied that there was a choice because a question was asked and answered, regardless of whether or not it had any effect on the final outcome.

[Lorizael]

laurentius, did you get that from somewhere or do you just have a fantastic memory?

Though, I don't think it's perfect.

[our_man]

I just saw it yesterday. Excellent movie. The second half of it more than makes up for the so-so first hour. Most of the philosophical conversations I found deeply boring, with the exception of The Architects revelation at the end and Merovingians causality argument, the latter was hilarious.

BTW have any of you seen the Animatrix, specifically the 2nd Renaissance Part 2? At the beginning of it humanity drop nuclear missiles on the machines to destroy them, which doesn't have any effect. But I though nuclear missiles generate an EMP, which should have been able to knock the machines out. What gives?

[Stefu]

Notice what Architect said:

"Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race."

"coupled with the extermination of Zion". I think this would seem to go against the Zion-matrix theory.

And besides, considering that Zion consists of the 0.01% of people who just couldn't fit in with the Matrix programming (ie. knew something was wrong all along), then how come the Zion-matrix programming wouldn't cause a similar feeling of wrongness?

[Lemmy]

And besides, considering that Zion consists of the 0.01% of people who just couldn't fit in with the Matrix programming (ie. knew something was wrong all along), then how come the Zion-matrix programming wouldn't cause a similar feeling of wrongness?

The idea of wrongness comes from the lack of choice. With Zion, they get a choice, they can choose between the Matrix, or Zion, whether Zion is real doesn't matter because the human chooses Zion to be the real thing...
...
...i think

[Bereta_Eder]

conclusion: they ****ed it up.

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Lorizael
laurentius, did you get that from somewhere or do you just have a fantastic memory?

Though, I don't think it's perfect.

Isnt it obvious, I have a fantastic memory of course

[Hot Mustard]

"To Be Concluded" not "To Be Continued"

There is a subtle but profound difference.

This is not part two of a trilogy, it is the first half of the second book in a duology.

The Matrix: Reloaded is not the complete story. That is why so many are confused and upset. At this point, the story is wide open to interpretation and presents more questions than it answers.

Consider how you feel after reading half a good book - your curiousity is piqued, you have many questions, and you read on. But these guys are making us wait until November for the other part of the book.

I, for one, am immensely enjoying the wealth of interpretations and conjecture offered by all - it proves that the story is an interesting one, that touches a wide range of topics: Philosophy, Metaphysics, many different advanced sciences, Psychology, etc.

[Bereta_Eder]

no if you leave a book half read you only want to know what happens next.


in reloaded the first book is fullof inconsistencies already, not half answered riddles.

[Bereta_Eder]

question: in the last scene, the one lyingon the bed close to neo was he the one smith took over in zion?

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by dejon
"To Be Concluded" not "To Be Continued"

There is a subtle but profound difference.

The former means it will end with Part 3, the latter means there will be a Part 3, but it may not be the concluding part.

It could still be the 2nd in a trilogy, just not the second in a series of > 3.

[Lemmy]

Originally posted by paiktis22
question: in the last scene, the one lyingon the bed close to neo was he the one smith took over in zion?

yes

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Kaak
i completely agree David, but I haven't gotten him figured out yet. I know about the merovingian kings supposedly being descended from christ, or greek gods depending on what you read, but it would seem that neo is filling the role of the resurected diety.

Ahem... I don't know about that, but I mentioned the Merovingian to my dad (who hasn't seen any Matrix movie), and he noted that King Clovis, king of the Merovingians was the first "barbarian" king to be Christened.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Mercator
Ahem... I don't know about that, but I mentioned the Merovingian to my dad (who hasn't seen any Matrix movie), and he noted that King Clovis, king of the Merovingians was the first "barbarian" king to be Christened.

Yes, he was that too. This intrigued me when David first mentioned it. Disappointingly, everything2 had nothing on Merovingianess in general, so I googled. Seems to be mostly a whole load of bull****, but the concensus of opinion is that these guys are descended from the Tribe of Dan and then the House of David via J.C., and went on to become the ancestors of most European monarchies.

(Tribe of Dan == Danmark?)

[Ned]

Clovis was hardly the first barbarian king to be Christened. The Goths has long been Christian, from the mid 200's on. The Burgundians has converted early in the 400's. Clovis' wife was a Burgundian who urged him to convert. He eventually did, and was baptised in 496.

Clovis was a Frank. There was nothing magical about him, except that he was ruthless.