I've been indicted on multiple charges!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why they need laws for that?

Because of psychological harm that results from 15 year olds going with 30 year olds. It is said that they can't really make a voluntary choice in that matter. It's a 'nanny state' rule... the kind that you in Finland should know .

[Pekka]

Parents could emphasize that they should have feelings first. Dad will always think guys are only after sex because they know it, they're men too! They're only oppressing younger guys, that's unfair! j/k

I believe girls want to have sex, or make love, first time being someone they have feelings for and all that crap.
Guys most of the times at that age just want to have sex. So there's a little conflict for sure.

For example, you find out she's going out with a guy. So you invite them and make it easy for them and not promise to kill the guy when you have little mano a mano. When they go out for a while and you get to know the guy and that he really likes your daughter, why not allow some sleep overs in the same room and bed.. not when they're 12, but when they're like 15 or so. It's safe and you know there's not going to be 12 drunk guys standing in line waiting for their turn.
Moms talk with the daughters better, so they know if they have real feelings, so you can be sure too that it's not going to be horrible experience and that it can be a good thing. When you hear the guy dumping your kid the next day, that's when you jump into your pick up, drive to school and get him out of his class while everyone is staring their mouths open and beat the living crap out of him in the yard.

[Imran Siddiqui]

why not allow some sleep overs in the same room and bed.. not when they're 12, but when they're like 15 or so. It's safe and you know there's not going to be 12 drunk guys standing in line waiting for their turn.

It is one thing to talk to your daughters about sex, but actually promote it? I wouldn't want to do that! Let them do it in secret... that would send the signal, at least, that you don't approve of her having sex at that age.

[Pekka]

Imram, well to be honest, I really don't know any relationships of those ages, or sex relationships of that age either. I'm sure it happens, but then again I'm sure it happens in the US too, with law or no law.

And I'm all for the house rules. Parents set the rules of the house, when they're underaged and live there. They should be respected, and there is a problem already if they're not respected. You can be reasonable with it, but the law is not changing what's going to happen.
And for sure I would not tolerate 30 year old guy in my house. But that's between my family and me, and then between me and the other guy.

[Pekka]

Imram, you got me wrong.. when they ask for permission to sleep together, they have obviously had sex for some time already. I'd consult the mom with this and ask if she thinks it's ok and if they're for real, and if green light, I wouldn't oppose. I would not say 'hey big boy wanna stay a night? Grab a beer, let's watch some football and then you can go upstairs with my daughter'.. that's not what I meant

[Imran Siddiqui]

when they ask for permission to sleep together, they have obviously had sex for some time already. I'd consult the mom with this and ask if she thinks it's ok and if they're for real, and if green light, I wouldn't oppose.

STILL!

No! No! No! If they want to have sex, I'm not going to allow them to use the house, as if I approve.

[Pekka]

Imram, yeah, but that's ok. You set the rules in your house. That's perfeclty respectable. I might change my mind if and when I have a daughter. There's nothing wrong with not letting the guy sleep under your roof, if you don't like the idea.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Pekka

why not allow some sleep overs in the same room and bed... when they're like 15 or so.

I did that with several of my girlfriends who were 16-17 when I was 18-19. Their parents had no problem with that. Perhaps beacuase I'm such a nice guy? One of those girlfriends is still my wife.

[Pekka]

Besides, me allowing some weirdo sleep in my house with my daughter would mean green light from the mom, meaning they are good couple, and that they've been going out for longer than few weeks, AND that I like the guy myself. Well, making it shorter, I wouldn't say NO with 100% certainty. Closer to 70-80% NO, but if it feels ok, and everyone else is up for it, I consider there's a possiblitiy of me saying it's ok.

If I had a son, it would be different. I'd let him have all the chicks he can score in my house. Hell, I'd even do high fives with him and give him respect!

Well.. not really. I think it's a bit two faced, that I'd let a girl stay easier than a guy..

[Pekka]

Olaf, well basically all of my buddies at that age (16-19) slept in the girls house with their parents acceptance.
When I had my 18th birthday and got too drunk, I woke in some girls bedroom and the parents were in there, watching TV. I thought I need to sneak out, but they were cool about, though I didn't even know the girl. I was surprised a little. But nothing to boast about really, apparently I was too drunk to .. perform anyway.

It's perfectly normal here. I mean that if a couple goes out, that the parents are not opposing sleeping under their roof. But usually they have gone out for a little while before they even introduce or have the guts to do that .

[Chemical Ollie]

When I lived in Turkku, one of my buddies (24 YO) got a little too drunk in the sauna and forgot to put on his underwear when we left. Then there was a 1st year female student (19 YO) who tried to seduce him, which was easy . She brought him home to let him sleep on her sofa, as this was their first night and he was to drunk to perfom anyway, but imagine his embarrassment when she helped him remove his pants and found out he wore no underwear.

[Pekka]

I hope he was drunk enough not to mind about it, and later on not remembering it! But then again you're telling the story, so he wasn't that lucky

[Sikander]

On the average there is a huge difference between a 16 year old girl and a 19 year old girl physiologically. Namely the last burst of brain development occurs (for most) during those years between, which turns girls into women in the mental as well as physical sense. For guys it usually happens 1 to 2 years later. Thus IMO girls of 16 are very rarely capable of exhibiting the sort of judgement we expect of adults, while women of 19 usually are at least capable of it, even if they don't always make the best choices either.

This is one reason why so many relationships which start at these ages so often end up going wrong. The people literally grow out of the relationship. It happened to my parents, my mother was 17 when they got married while my father was 22. My mother was a wunderkind, enrolled at the University at 16 years old. She still lived with her abusive parents, and wanted out of there badly. My dad was an engineering nerd, and they hooked up and got married 9 months after they met. I'm sure my mom seemed very mature in ways, she was used to playing an adult role to fill in the gaps of her own family. But in some very important ways she had merely postponed her own development, skipping whole developmental phases by necessity. The problem is that eventually you have to go through those phases of life in order to be mentally healthy and capable of being a responsible adult. And the development is much harder to accomplish out of sequence and outside the normal developmental window. My dad had no idea what he was in for, all he knew was that he had a smokingly hot 17 year old girl who was infatuated with him, and it was the best thing he had ever experienced. (I'm the same sort of idiot, thankfully with a bit more wisdom than the old man.)

Their relationship started coming apart within a few years, though they didn't split up finally for 10 years. There were numerous breakdowns, suicide attempts and infidelities before then. My sister and I grew up in the midst of that sh!t, and more or less made our own way from the time I was about 9 years old. I was the parent, she was the child, and my parents chucked in some money now and again. Neither one was really capable of parenting, my mother had custody and managed to work while she continued her education, my father married again and moved away.

This stuff can have serious consequences! Keep in mind that none of what happened with my parents was illegal, and no one tried to interfere. Yet the thing was fubar from the beginning. While I agree that the law should be a last resort, we can't rely entirely on the assumption that parents will do their jobs properly. Many parents (especially young single mothers who themselves were abused) will not only fail to protect their children from serial abusers, they will often encourage the relationship actively or passively. They won't see it as abuse because they still haven't come to terms with their own abuse. The law needs to have a way to protect those children that no one else will.

[Ming]

I can see from reading through this thread that I need to keep my shot gun loaded. My eldest daughter is turning 15

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


No, we're older, and we know why 9 times out of ten a much older man goes out with a teenage girl, because he can't relate to women his own age. Sikander was spot on. Theben and I very nearly decided to go have a "talk" with one guy, who was 27, who was dating our 18 year-old sister. We let it slide, because, knowing our sister, she wasn't gonna be interested in him for very long, and she wasn't.

Sikander's post was short, sweet, and too the point, so there's no reason for me to expand upon it. Any man who thinks a child is his soul-mate has serious problems. He needs to get help to understand and overcome why he feels he can connect on such a level with someone who hasn't experienced life yet.

Hey Commie you sound pretty "rightish/conservative" in that situation.