1975: Saigon surrenders

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned


Of course.

And in the course of that entire campaign, the Vietnamese did not capture even one member of Pol Pot's government that should have been tried. Right?

I don't know. I expect they either shot them in the field or simply imprisoned them outright.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

UR, your ignorance is showing. You might want to cover up and while you're at it look up the history of the battle of Chosin Reservoir.

The Chinese often used out dated tactics like the old WW1 style "human wave" attack. The problem is WW1 proved that guys with machine guns could just chop down wave after wave while taking almost no causulties. Add in barbed wire, claymores, arty, and air support and you start to see why so many more Chinese died then Americans.

[Ned]

Q Cubed, Once, I never thought I would see the day the Berlin wall fell. But it did fall. And with it, the belief that communism was invincible.

I now think that the North's time has come. If we can work out a deal with the Chinese to satisfy their security concerns, that regime is gone -- that is, unless we elect a Democrat.

[Dinner]

The North has so brainwashed its own people that I doubt they will never rise up and reclaim their god given rights. That regime, like Castro's Cuba and Tito's Yugoslavia, will only parish when the current strong man dies. Or if he starts a war he can't win.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The North has so brainwashed its own people that I doubt they will never rise up and reclaim their god given rights. That regime, like Castro's Cuba and Tito's Yugoslavia, will only parish when the current strong man dies. Or if he starts a war he can't win.

But he DID die!

[Dinner]

Yes, everyone eventually dies. Even mass murders who repress their people.

[Ned]

GP's point is that this Kim is the son of the first dictator.

The King is dead, long live the King!

[Dinner]

Remember that it took 10 years after Tito died before the system gave it's last breath. In the end though its fate was sealed in the same coffin as Tito. It was just waiting for the pin to drop.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Ned

Note, that when Johnson rallied the nation in late '64 with the Tonkin Gulf incident and resolution, many, if not most, of us believed we were going to war against NV. That is what the Gulf of Tonkin incident was about - an NV attack on US carriers. However, Johnson did not invade the North. In addition, he handcuffed our troops in the South by limiting how they could operate and by foreclosing going after the Cambodian bases.

Ned to set the record correct. Johnson told the Nation that the NVNavy using two or four Gunboats/Torpedo boats fired Torpedo at two US Navy Destroyeds. The USS Maddox, DD 731 and the USS Turner Joy, DD 951. (If anyone wants to see the offical version, go www.NAVSource.org/index.html).
Eight days before my discharge, I was on a bus into Long Beach and a Gunner Mate from the Turner Joy was sitting next to me and I asked him what happen over there. He said that if anyone came close to the ships, they were told to sink them. He then said that the Turner Joy radar pick up some boat headed their way. However as soon as the boat were in range of their Five inch guns, they open fire, and one or more of the boats were sunk. The Torpedo Boats never fired their Torpedos.
Torpedo of Soviet Union in 1964 did not have a lot of range.

[Zkribbler]

Yeah, it's been established that the Tolkin Gulf incident was concocted by the Johnson Administration in order to con Congress into giving the military a free hand.

Those lying b*st*ards killed tens of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Dissident
I still say the U.S. won that war

It did. I mean the US Military version of Vietnam. The Johnson administration lost the first part of the Vietnam War. And then the US Congress lost the final part when they denied assistance to the South from 73 to 75.
Of course our beloved Congresss also try to give Nicaragua to the communist.
Our Congress, what a joke.

[Dinner]

I've heard a few conspiracy theorists say the Gulf of Tonkin incident was concocted but I have yet to see resposible historians say as much.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Calley got screwed, and that's all I have to say on that subject.

Yes, They were in the village, and when they left, and had just gone outside of the village, one of their guys was shot in the back and was killed. But the reporter don't like to talk about that part of the incident.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by gsmoove23


We couldn't have done anything to China whatever Truman said. What would you have proposed, escalate to full scale war, forgetting that China and Russia had a mutual defense pact. China was equally worried about escalation which was why they put nowhere near their full strengh into the field. Your ideas would have created WWIII.

At the time, only we had the bomb, and we should have used it.
And before you say the Soviet had the bomb think. The Russian had to used their in their test and was building the next one, but had not finnish it yet.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by gsmoove23
Eisenhower had campaigned to end the war, the fact that he used a threat of expanding the war to try to bring about peace is not at all surprising.

I would also remind you that it was Truman who started the Korean War and passed the 38th and Kennedy who escalated Vietnam, and stood down the Soviets in Cuba

Your view of the Democrats is a little flawed

I I Think the North started the war, by invading the South and then and only then did the US sent Troops, Planes, and Ships.
Wrong again, Johnson escalated the war in 65.