1975: Saigon surrenders

[TCO]

Originally posted by Menlas


Contrast the North Vietnam army and equipment with the Iraq/Afghanistan ones. What a difference.

(not to speak about the battlefield, which was *slightly* different in Vietnam than in Iraq)

Remember the "battle-hardened Iraqi army" of GW1. The one that had all that experience fighting with Iran and was supposed to give us tens of thousands of caualties?

[Buck Birdseed]

Of course Cambodia is related. You bombed the hell out of a non-participating country, thus laying the foundation of the Khmer Rouge, and the Vietnamese conducted the only military campaign in history most scholars, ever Restrictionsits, agree was a genuine case of humanitarian intervention when they got rid of them. An action which, of course, you condemned.

[Dinner]

If they were smart the South Vietnamese would have started playing the Viet cong's game and begun an unconvential war of national liberation.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Of course Cambodia is related. You bombed the hell out of a non-participating country, thus laying the foundation of the Khmer Rouge, and the Vietnamese conducted the only military campaign in history most scholars, ever Restrictionsits, agree was a genuine case of humanitarian intervention when they got rid of them. An action which, of course, you condemned.

It was officially a non-participating country but defacto they were as closely tied to the north Vietnamese war effort as the Taliban was tied to Al Quada.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Of course Cambodia is related. You bombed the hell out of a non-participating country, thus laying the foundation of the Khmer Rouge, and the Vietnamese conducted the only military campaign in history most scholars, ever Restrictionsits, agree was a genuine case of humanitarian intervention when they got rid of them. An action which, of course, you condemned.

We attacked NVA forces operating in Cambodia. We did not attack Cambodia. Grow a brain.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If they were smart the South Vietnamese would have started playing the Viet cong's game and begun an unconvential war of national liberation.

If they were willing to restore their previous dictator too. I think most people wouldn't have died to replace the communists with an equivalent dictatorial regime.

[Agathon]

Why don't you tell it like it was: "America soundly defeated and utterly humiliated by a bunch of peasants and students with guns."

[Bosh]

I believe the term the US government applied to the Vietnamese overthrow of the Khmer Rouge was "Prussians of Southeast Asia" and similar condemnations. How dare the Vietnamese end the killing...

[Shi Huangdi]

I've always wondered that if we had chose to do things differently , victory would have been possible. We had a huge thread on this a while back, which asked Apolytoners what they would have done if they were in command of the US army in Vietnam. I'd still be interested if anyone has any thoughts on what we could have done differently...

[Menlas]

Originally posted by GP


Remember the "battle-hardened Iraqi army" of GW1. The one that had all that experience fighting with Iran and was supposed to give us tens of thousands of caualties?

Nothing comparable with the guerilla tactics perfectly well used by NV. The moral of the troops was completely different, too.

Come on. It's obvious that the Vietnam war was much more difficult than GW or Afghanistan.

[SlowwHand]

Buck, you need to do a little investigative research.
Cambodia, Laos, China, all involved.

One could sit at Udorn in Northern Thailand and watch rockets in Laos.

I've no idea what one could see from Bangkok, or other points.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Spiffor

If they were willing to restore their previous dictator too. I think most people wouldn't have died to replace the communists with an equivalent dictatorial regime.

They had no such options. The crackdown on the South Vietnamese was much harsher than what they had had before. Millions in camps initially, etc. Their option was to vote with their feet. Look at the differences in immigration rate before and after 75. And realize that the people leaving had to risk their lives to leave (harder to do so). It was a big slave camp.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Menlas


Nothing comparable with the guerilla tactics perfectly well used by NV. The moral of the troops was completely different, too.

Come on. It's obvious that the Vietnam war was much more difficult than GW or Afghanistan.

Oh, don't you remember? Afghanistan was supposed to be the unconquerable country. Especially in winter. And the Northern Alliance of no use. That was what was said before we won.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Come on. It's obvious that the Vietnam war was much more difficult than GW or Afghanistan."

Afghanistan was known well for it's fierce guerilla fighters, who had defeated the Soviet Union just a little earlier.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I've always wondered that if we had chose to do things differently , victory would have been possible. We had a huge thread on this a while back, which asked Apolytoners what they would have done if they were in command of the US army in Vietnam. I'd still be interested if anyone has any thoughts on what we could have done differently...

Powell was right. You either go all out and fight a war or you get out but you never just sort of fight and sort of not fight. Johnson that he could fight an unending defensive war in South Vietnam but never invade the North. That is not a winning strategy.

Instead what we needed was a MacAurthor type leader who was bold enough to risk pissing off the communist Chinese by invading and subjecting the north. The point being that now you are fighting on their land and there people are seeing the war on their doorstep day in and day out.