The Hamas answer to Abu Mazen's New Goverment

[Pekka]

Yeah that's a huge problem, that social thing they bring in the picture. I remember debate I saw in TV about Israel-Palestine conflict with Finnish jews and arabs debating.. One big thing that was like throwing fuel into fire was that one of the pro-Pals told 'Hamas is NOT terrorist organisation. It gives social security to people!'

That is a huge problem. Sure.. they give to the people, but if that makes it ok for them to kill innocent Israeli citizens, then hell I guess Hitler was a freedom fighter too!

Maybe UN or someone should see it through, that Palestinian people get social security from somewhere else than the Hamas. Then Hamas is not important to the people of Palestine. Then it only kills. And then we will see how much they get that support. I think it would drop drastically. After that, new campagn, but Hamas members faces on the Palestinian TV 24/7 with rewards of their heads like 'Osama Hussein, member of Hamas *picture*, last seen in X, goes by the names of X, age X, reward $10 000 tax free live or dead. Preferred dead.'

And with that, Palestines and Israels joint effort to hunt down every single member of the group. Only ones saved and sent to jail are the ones giving valid information about other members and leaders, those who will not co-operate, killed in sight without compensation to their families.

[Spiffor]

I know. In some cases, injuries are worse than death. But I hope an efficient emergency healing will minimize the damage.

[Sirotnikov]

Hey, we're trained for this ..... .....

[I Am Jeff]

Someone at some point has probaly said this, but the whole Israel/Palastinian conflic is a catch-22. For those who do not know what that is, simple it is something that can not happen with the other thing happening. For example A has to happen for B to happen, but B has to happen for A to happen.

Neither side wants to give in, and in many ways it is understandable. But I think Abu Mazen wants to make peace much more so then Arafat, only time will tell. Based on what Sirotnikov, I think an outside force needs to be present to stop the violence as well. Neither side trusts the other, so a mutually trusted side needs to come in. I know this probaly will not go over well on either side. But since Sirotnikov said that the "palestinian police either ignored or actively participated in terrorism", it seems that Abu Mazen may be climbing a very steep hill. And when ever Israel enters palestine, it makes things worst.

It is because of this that another neutral force needs to go in. I honestly do not who could go in there to make order and get the trust of either side, I guess it is wishfull thinking.

I also think Israel should give one more shot. Yes it backfired before, but if it backfires again you can really say, "Look we continue to try, time after time. There is nothing else we can do unless they do something." Yes I know, we do not want it to fail again. But the more proof of how many times you tried, the better other areas may look upon you and maybe more nations will put big pressure on Palestine to fix itself.

Ultimatly though if the Palestinians, inside themselves, do not want to make concessions, peace, etc; the situation will just get worse. The solution will then reside in the children that need to be taught not to hate, that is where your problem lies. Untill the children stop hateing, children who become adults will also hate.

[Sirotnikov]

I Am Jeff- I think abu Mazen is more of a realist than Arafat. Thus, Israel could use that to it's advantage. I have no doubt he will curb terror... for a while.

We need to learn to use political tools to make it last longer.

Yes it backfired before, but if it backfires again you can really say, "Look we continue to try, time after time. There is nothing else we can do unless they do something."

I can see your point, but it doesn't always work.

Imagine trying to walk through a wall, hitting your head, and then going at it again....


news update
Most of the casualties are in their 20s, some still in their teens.
They were enjoying a live blues performance at a pub called Jimmi's Place.
The terrorist detonated himself after being stopped by the secuirty guard, who demanded to check him and check his identification.

2 of the casualties are tourists - 1 an American and 1 a Frenchman.

[Sten Sture]

Mike's Place, not Jimmi's...

our condolences again.

I thought the guy got off a bus? Amazing how much conflicting info there is already.

[Sirotnikov]

My mistake.

I didn't write it down, and confused mike with jimmy.

It is indeed called mike's place.

[Bereta_Eder]

I wonder how many more Palestinians the IDF will kill?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by paiktis22
I wonder how many more Palestinians the IDF will kill?

That the best you can do?

[Bereta_Eder]

How many?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by paiktis22
How many?

Many of them seem to be pretty good at blowing themselves up without the IDF's assistance.

[Eli]

A bit unrelated :

Syria-education
DAMASCUS - 12:12 GMT
Syria to switch school uniforms to pink and blue from khaki

[Spiffor]

Wow, everything happens. Good

I hope they'll continue the progressive de-militarization of society. Now, turn this Ba'ath uniform into bright yellow !

[The diplomat]

If suicide attacks contiue, why does anyone expect this "road map" to be any different? As long as Hamas and others continues their attacks, no peace plan no matter how well intentionned is going to succeed. We should have learned that from Clinton's exhaustive attempts at a peace process. First, you destroy the terrorist organizations like Hamas, then you negotiate a political peace deal, not the other way around!

[Spiffor]

The Diplomat :

The problem is, this destruction must happen quasi-simulatneously with the application of the peace deal. There is a spiral of hate and violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians that can only stop if both parties take steps simultaneously.
The problem isn't only the Hamas. The problem is that they get a huge support in the Palestinian population for various reasons, the first one being the Israeli behaviour.

However, it would be stupid to ask the Israelis to stop their behaviour outright (by opening the doors of their country to the Pals for example), because it will ease the work of so many terrorists, even though their support wil fall progressively.

The only possible solution is that Israel and the Palestinian authority commonly destroy the Hamas while removing incentives to the population to recreate a similar group.

This can be done only if a peace plan is ready, and if a peace plan has been negociated beforehand.