French and Russian Collaborations with Saddam Hussein Begin to Surface

[Joseph]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
So does no one notice the real issue here? Here is evidence that the US government lied to its own people and was planning to attack Iraq from the very begining, instead of it's story that it only made the decision to attack in March.


Oh, right, the US government lying to the American people is no big deal.

Does it really matter, now that Saddam is gone?
I don't care if they find WMD, Saddam is gone.

[chequita guevara]

It does matter. Let's put it this way. If I go to Bill Gates house, kill his family, steal everything, sell it, and give the money to the poor, does that make it a good thing? Lots of people will be better off. Their quality of life will be improved. Their opportunities to make something with their lives will be increased.

So am I a hero or a murderer and thief?

[Drake Tungsten]

Did you kill Bill Gates too? If so, you'd definitely be a hero.

[GePap]

Dont try to argue Che...some people don't care if they are lied to , as long as they like the liar.

At this point, even if I am still giving the US some more time, think that in the end, nowhere near the amounts that US and Uk said the Iraqis had in terms of weapons and stuff will be found. I personally then would like to see a investigation to be done to find out just how the US and UK and a lot of other people in general then came up with all the number they did (like 10,000 liters of anthrax, or 700+ mustard gas shells) and the claims they made (UAV's that could spread gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, 20 SCUDS). I don;t think the US and Uk intelligence agencies were just out to lie, but somewhere along the line it seem to me a claim was made and no one ever tried to investigate its truth. That is not the way to run intelligence agencies.

[chequita guevara]

My understanding is that there are several hunderd suspected sites, and by last weekend they had only searched 90 of them. I'm giving the US the time it needs to make its case. They should, however, have found something by now, given how much proof they claimed to have had.

The scary scenario is that the US was correct in its assessment, but because it is searching so half-assedly, that the wepaons actually will find there way into the hands of terrorists. After all, the borders are effectively open right now, and everything else in the country has been looted, so why not WMDs.

[GePap]

They may have only searched 90, but those were the "90" that were 'sure' things. The longer things go, the less likely they are to find anything, not higher, in my view

More importantly, many of the highest members of the programs are in our custody. I mean, who the hell was hiding these things, in this scenerio? Some tribal sheik Saddam decided to give 2000 liter of anthrax to to hide real good? Where could 20 SCUDS (which supposedly the Iraqis had all this time) be hidden?

We may find something here or there, but by now I greatly doubt that the level of wepons claimed before the war will be found, and as such, I would, as i said, really like an investigation into how these numbers came to be.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by GePap
Dont try to argue Che...some people don't care if they are lied to , as long as they like the liar.

At this point, even if I am still giving the US some more time, think that in the end, nowhere near the amounts that US and Uk said the Iraqis had in terms of weapons and stuff will be found. I personally then would like to see a investigation to be done to find out just how the US and UK and a lot of other people in general then came up with all the number they did (like 10,000 liters of anthrax, or 700+ mustard gas shells) and the claims they made (UAV's that could spread gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, 20 SCUDS). I don;t think the US and Uk intelligence agencies were just out to lie, but somewhere along the line it seem to me a claim was made and no one ever tried to investigate its truth. That is not the way to run intelligence agencies.

Just so you will know, I never did care a lot about the WMD. What I did care about was Saddam, and I wanted him gone, no matter what. If they do fine some WMD, that would great.
Now the UN inspectors said he had some of this stuff when they were kick out in 98, so were is it? I would walk every squard inch of that country before saying we can not find anything.
He had some Scuds, what did he do with them? Do you think he gave them away? The UN inspectors did not fine anything this time that would support him destroying any WMD or Scuds. There are a lot of question there and only Saddam know what he did, and we don't have him yet, if he is still alive.

[Lung]

Originally posted by Serb

WE WERE AGAINST THIS WAR, BECAUSE THIS WAR IS AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW. When the hell you will understand that USA acted alike Nazi Germany (Poland) or Imperial Japan (Pearl Harbor) or Soviet Union (Winter war)? YOU acted illegaly. YOU broke international laws that humanity created to prevent such bloodbaths as both World wars were. You are agressors. Shame on you.

Unprovoced war isn't the answer in any situation.

I said that I proud that my country tried to force Saddam to continue cooperation with UN, tried to prevent this war, tried to saved thousands that you killed and tried to protect international laws that you've broken.

Oh, that's rich, coming from your lot When did your country last value human rights?

Even worse, saying the Yanks were as bad as the Nazis and Japanese Imperial Forces in WWII is absurd So, a few hundred civilians dying at the hands of stray boms is as bad as 6 million jews being put in camps for the sole purpose of gasing them to death is the same thing, is it? It's no wonder the Serbian army used snipers against children

Dumb comments like yours only serve to make the Yanks come up smelling like roses.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lung
It's no wonder the Serbian army used snipers against children

Serb is Russian. Pick an example from Chechnya.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I just cannot condone the support of this despot, by anyone. To me, the support to Saddam should shame our country the same way the US support to Pinochet should ashame yours.

We did not support Pinochet. As soon as the abuses were published, Ford cut off military aid. We had previous cut of all other aid.

[Ned]

Serb, Humanity did not found the United Nations, the US, Britain, the USSR and China did, but mainly the US and Britain, IIRC. The first meeting was in San Francisco. The permanent HQ is in New York City.

The UN is an American ideal that has turned sour, first because Stalin, who had a veto, turned out to be an enemy. Second, because we admitted so many countries that were not or soon were not democracies.

Somewhere in the UN design process, we lost our way when we did not insist on democratic goverments be a ground rule for continued membership.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Ned
Serb, Humanity did not found the United Nations, the US, Britain, the USSR and China did, but mainly the US and Britain, IIRC. The first meeting was in San Francisco. The permanent HQ is in New York City.

The UN is an American ideal that has turned sour, first because Stalin, who had a veto, turned out to be an enemy. Second, because we admitted so many countries that were not or soon were not democracies.

Somewhere in the UN design process, we lost our way when we did not insist on democratic goverments be a ground rule for continued membership.

And boy did we s---- up

[Serb]

Originally posted by conmcb25


First of all no it wouldn't because the Russians have a tendency to STAY!

Like Yanks do not. If Yanks come somewhere, they'll stay there untill the end of times.

And who is the current dictator in the Baltic States that is gasing his own people and trying like heck to acquire weapons of mass destruction, violating numerous UN Resolutions,etc?

It's not a problem. We can give them some chem weapons (as USA gave chem weapons to Saddam) and say that it will be ok for them to use it against some Russian rebels. It wouldn't be a problem for us to create a strong rebel movement in Baltic States. So, we can always fabricate a good reason for DOW against Baltic states, it reqires only time. So, if for example we'll support some kind of evil motherf*cker and send to him some WOMD at the beginning, and later we'll start to shout- "Look, this guy is REALLY EVIL MOTHERF*CKER!!! HE IS A THREAT TO THE WORLD PEACE!!! WE HAVE NO CHOICE, EXCEPT TO INVADE AND OCCUPY HIS COUNTRY." It will be Ok for us?

I really think you need to find a different comparison

Ok. Turkmenistan- typical dictatorship, with evil dictator in charge. Can we invade and occupy this country to save this world from evil and to liberate Turkmen citizens whose suffer from oppression? Please?
I also could mention Kirgizstan or Tadzhicistan. Middle Asian former republics of SU aren't very democratic currently.

Im glad you dont like my current avatar. In that case Ill keep it for a while!

As you wish. I just said that your previous avatar was much better.

[The Mad Monk]

Like Yanks do not. If Yanks come somewhere, they'll stay there untill the end of times.

Perhaps, but can you see the difference in, say, the Americans staying in West Germany, and the Russians staying in East Germany?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Lung
Even worse, saying the Yanks were as bad as the Nazis and Japanese Imperial Forces in WWII is absurd

Who said that Yanks were as bad as nazi?
I said that there is no difference between American invasion in Iraq and German invasion in Poland, Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Soviet invasion in Finland, becase all those attacks are AGRESSIONS against independent countries. Try to prove me that American invasion in Iraq isn't agression and I'll give you a candy.

So, a few hundred civilians dying at the hands of stray boms is as bad as 6 million jews being put in camps for the sole purpose of gasing them to death is the same thing, is it?

We have a classic writer, more probably you never heard about Fedor Dostoevsky, but he said "All happiness of humanity don't worth a single teardrop of a child." So happiness of thousands is immoral and unjustified if a single child died to achieve this happiness.

It's no wonder the Serbian army used snipers against children

Yeah damn right And Serbs also eat Albanian children. Another victim of CNN&FOX brainwahing machine.