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  • OOC: The Rules

    Rules adopted so far
    1. No god-modding or roleplaying actions out of relation to your nations ability

    2. Weapons/technology should be based in semi-reality, and any slightly advanced weapons should be roleplayed out.

    3. Maximum 3 spots on the map per player (Primary Nation plus 2 more for expansion, secondary nations or one of each).

    4. No expansion is allowed until the primary nations reaches 500M.

    5. Secondary spots can be "bumped" by new primary
    nations.

    6. Nations can have nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction, but if they use them they are removed from the region. It's up to the remaining nations to roleplay the results of the attack (if any). Details of the vote can be found here.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Points of Contention
    1. "vacation mode" vs. "you snooze, you lose" (or, can you reclaim a lost spot?)

    2. Size of each nation's spot on the official map (ie, should all nations be roughly the same size? or should the map reflect the differences in nation size, density, etc. that occur in RL).

    3. whether further expansion (beyond the limit) can be possible through roleplay (and whether that expansion should be temporary or not)

    3b. whether further expansion, if allowed, should appear on the official map.

    4. group decision making need/process/etc.

    5. Should nations created by relatives/spouses/whatever who are new to Apolyton be allowed?

    5b. If so, should they be treated as primary nations? or the secondary nations of the Polytubbie in question?

    6. Should we decide on a spread-sheet formula for workable military numbers?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    summary of the debate/discussion
    This forum has been relatively inactive for quite awhile, until recently. The last couple of weeks has been a renaissance of sorts.

    I think, rather than get into a pissing contest about, for example, the current roleplay vs. the old rules, we'd all be better served to have a full discussion about how things should be run in the forum.

    This thread is an attempt to do that.

    Rather than throw out a proposal, I think it might be better for me to start things off with an outline of the issues I (personally) think need to be resolved. The details will be filled in later, as a result of the discussion.


    1. Roleplaying
    joncha - "Roleplaying should be as "realistic" as possible. This means ( but is not limited to):
    1.) No uber-weapons, no superheroes, no magical powers, etc.
    2.) No god-modding or roleplaying actions out of relation to your nations ability
    3.) Some attempt at a shared chronology (eg, 1 week RL = 1 month game time), to be decided on by the group
    4.) Collective decision making for all region issues (ie, voting on game mechanics, region size, etc.)"

    Frankychan - No uber-weapons and flippant usage of nukes.

    -"I'll personally ignore any post which says that they nuke my population and invade and blahblahblah without my consent. If I don't approve of you messing around in my nation, it doesn't happen."

    - We should base ourselves in semi-reality, so that roleplaying has some common ground.

    Urban Ranger - Slightly advanced weapons should be roleplayed out (as was done with Fusion Power).

    - "We tried that but no time scale would work. Simply population grows too fast at any reasonable intervals (a week, etc.), while nothing else can be done if we go with a year or a decade. Eventually we just ignored time."

    - "There are also the military and economy issues. An important thing is how one determines the size of a country's armed forces, and what equipment they have."

    joncha - Should Apolyton be nuclear free?

    GeneralTacticus - "Well, being able to have wars without the constant potential for total annihilation would be nice..."

    Squeblish Nef? - Nukes are fun. Relax, nobody would use them anyway.

    joncha - You can have Nukes for roleplaying purposes, but if you use them your are ejected from the region.

    GeneralTacticus - If both sides agree to a Nuclear exchange, it should be allowed.

    Squeblish Nef? - Bioweapons should be allowed.

    Rasputin - We need some agreement on military calculations.

    xiaodave - population figures should be taken as a guideline instead of as a literal number.

    2. Nations and Members
    joncha - One nation per member.

    - "Membership should be open to any who wish to participate, but that there should be some mechanism in place to deal with people who aren't mature enough to play well with others."

    Frankychan - "As for the multiple nations-one user thing, I'm a little torn."

    joncha - A maximum of 3 nations per person. (see limitations under section 3).

    Basus - There should be a "vacation mode" so users aren't punished just because they can't access the internet.

    - The should be a moderator (or moderators) to see to the rules and establish official polls.

    Urban Ranger - Nations created by a member's girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse, etc. should be treated as that member's secondary nation.

    - "I can't see her doing things against him in NS or in this forum. So for all intents and purposes, they are one person."

    joncha - "[someone's special friend] is in fact a real, living breathing human being, and thus has the right to take part in the forum as she [or he] sees fit."

    3. The Map and Nation placement
    Crimson Sunrise - Rules on multiple locations should be lenient, but expansion should be overruled by new primary nations that request the space

    joncha - Disappeared nations and conquered areas should appear on the map, but in a lighter colour (or some other identifier).

    - Nations that don't pick a spot should have one assigned randomly.

    ceroomaster - "How about one additional spot allowed per 400M people? 300M or 500M may also be workable solutions. This would prevent people with 5M grabbing 7 spots, but allow more established nations more breathing space if they desire."

    joncha - 1 spot per 500M people, to a maximum of 3. This includes expansion and secondary nations.

    Twileman - "As for expansion, given that the map contains about 190 spots and there are currently 94 registered members, I think it might be possible to leave certain spots as unclaimed territories. That way, for role-playing purposes, a nation can "conquer" the territory for a temporary amount of time. This would have to be only temporary (a time limit if needed) so that we don't have person acting like Napolean and trying to takeover the world. "

    Rasputin - "id like to do some work on working out a density max formulae to figure out how much land a population needs, then work out how much land each territory has."

    Squeblish Nef? - Not every area of land can support the same amount of people.

    Urban Ranger - The size of the locations should be made more uniform.

    GeneralTacticus - Conquest should be roleplayed. The expansion limit should only cover peaceful expansion.

    Rasputin - Deleted nations that are re-founded should be able to get their old spaces back.

    joncha - A disappeared nation and newer nation that has taken its spot both have valid claims to the spot. The Apolyton Court should decide.

    Flinx - You snooze, you lose. Next time, log on to Nationstates once a month.

    ceroomaster - "If a nation was conquored in an RP- then the map should retain that nation's details and colours.
    If an empty spot was RPed as taken over in a military fashion (i.e. not for the expansion of population) it should remain just that- as an RP- constant colouring and recolouring of the map would get confusing.
    This can be represented as the greater community not recognising a nation's claim to an area as they've entered it in a warlike fashion (perhaps?)"

    Rasputin - A conquering nation's flag should be placed on an occupied region until they leave.

    foolish_icarus - We should expand the map to allow for larger nations.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by joncha; June 13, 2004, 03:18.
    ~ If Tehben spits eggs at you, jump on them and throw them back. ~ Eventis ~ Eventis Dungeons & Dragons 6th Age Campaign: Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4: (Unspeakable) Horror on the Hill ~

  • #2
    The Role playing was going along fine until this week, whilst many think the forum had died some of us were still here playing , whilst not all were here it did continue and without blowing my own horn, it was my activity that drew people back again.

    I think the idea of inability to expand into other areas is non-sensical and really stops al lrole palying. Nation states it self doesnt allow any war or interaction with other nations so this forum was our only chance, to go back to me, is to basically make this a waste of time, i cant see how just doing the issues at nation states is in any form role palying ...

    just my .04c worth
    GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71

    Comment


    • #3
      What exactly are us crackpot dictators supposed to do with our spare time if we can't annex other nations ?

      Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

      Comment


      • #4
        *removed
        Last edited by ceroomaster; May 2, 2004, 10:30.
        -Sir T

        Comment


        • #5
          I think the rule on multiple locations should be lenient, if it's an issue of an outside territory, a security zone, or a military intervention. I also think that these things should be able to be overruled by someone else requesting the territory for a primary nation.
          Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

          Comment


          • #6
            i think a few issiues all related.

            How many nations may each member hold?

            May a nation expand into vacant territorys?

            May a nation invade an inhabited zone?

            Are some territorys too large for new members?

            Are some territorys too small for existing members?
            GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71

            Comment


            • #7
              Here are my thoughts, some of which have been posted in various threads:

              Roleplaying should be as "realistic" as possible. This means ( but is not limited to):
              1.) No uber-weapons, no superheroes, no magical powers, etc.
              2.) No god-modding or roleplaying actions out of relation to your nations ability
              3.) Some attempt at a shared chronology (eg, 1 week RL = 1 month game time), to be decided on by the group
              4.) Collective decision making for all region issues (ie, voting on game mechanics, region size, etc.)

              I would prefer to see one nation per member, period. I think some reasonable allowances can be made, such as the grandfathering in of existing secondary nations, etc. Basically, I find it amusing that on a site that frowns on DLs (to put it mildly), Double Nations are ok. In terms of membership, I strongly believe that it should be open to any who wish to participate, but that there should be some mechanism in place to deal with people who aren't mature enough to play well with others.

              As for the map, I think "disappeared" nations should stay there until they are replaced (maybe without a colour, or in a lighter tone than the master pallet). I think limited expansion is ok (with incorporated areas in the same lighter tone as lost nations), but subject to group approval. Ditto secondary nations, if allowed. Any nation that doesn't pick a spot after a certain amount of time should be placed randomly. New nations should be able to claim secondary spots as their primary spots.
              ~ If Tehben spits eggs at you, jump on them and throw them back. ~ Eventis ~ Eventis Dungeons & Dragons 6th Age Campaign: Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4: (Unspeakable) Horror on the Hill ~

              Comment


              • #8
                Very good ideas, these get my support..
                GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71

                Comment


                • #9
                  Again, I only wished to provide an outline for us to discuss these issues in a rational, mature way. It is just that: an outline, to be changed and debated as the group sees fit.
                  ~ If Tehben spits eggs at you, jump on them and throw them back. ~ Eventis ~ Eventis Dungeons & Dragons 6th Age Campaign: Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4: (Unspeakable) Horror on the Hill ~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    your outline suits me,
                    GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't mind. With the insurgence of new dictator-led nations, this forum has really revitalized itself. I remember when I checked in here a few times, there would be a few months before a new post would be entered.

                      With this said, I agree that no uber-weapons and flippant usage of nukes. I'll personally ignore any post which says that they nuke my population and invade and blahblahblah without my consent. If I don't approve of you messing around in my nation, it doesn't happen.

                      Anyway, I agree, Joncha that we should base ourselves in a semi-reality. I mean, I don't think we should dictate to others how they want to play NationStates, but when interacting with other players there should be common ground.

                      As for the multiple nations-one user thing, I'm a little torn. What if one person has two nations, but decides that one nation is going to join the "Iron-Fist Union" and the other nation to join the Free World? That would be pretty interesting to have a little war between their own nations.

                      Basically, we shouldn't put too much rules into this, but at the same time keep our stuff practical.

                      (oh, btw-Thanks for the Hawaiian Flag Joncha )
                      Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
                      Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
                      *****Citizen of the Hive****
                      "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        interesting, all very interesting...



                        ok, only one main question... we seem to have a lot of empty land, were these places filled with Nations that have disapeared?

                        I am also sort of curious how a nation of over a billion population can be expected to sit by and watch land sit fallow.

                        Yet I have no idea if there is any scale to the maps.

                        My population of 5 million happily spread out and fill the Island of Emerald Cove.

                        Yet when my population is quite higher, they would then be squeezed in and our hospitality industry would suffer considerably. All the while an array of empty islands sit nearby.

                        Add to that some of my people had petitioned my court for us to settle on the mainland. So we too look to expand.

                        Also, what happens to any land of regions that we may take over?
                        Gurka 17, People of the Valley
                        I am of the Horde.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by joncha
                          1.) No uber-weapons, no superheroes, no magical powers, etc.
                          I think any advanced technology should be RP'ed out first, like what we did initially with fusion power and some other slightly futuristic stuff.

                          Originally posted by joncha
                          2.) No god-modding or roleplaying actions out of relation to your nations ability
                          That's for sure.

                          Originally posted by joncha
                          3.) Some attempt at a shared chronology (eg, 1 week RL = 1 month game time), to be decided on by the group
                          We tried that but no time scale would work. Simply population grows too fast at any reasonable intervals (a week, etc.), while nothing else can be done if we go with a year or a decade. Eventually we just ignored time.

                          Originally posted by joncha
                          4.) Collective decision making for all region issues (ie, voting on game mechanics, region size, etc.)
                          For the UN or intra-region?

                          There are also the military and economy issues. An important thing is how one determines the size of a country's armed forces, and what equipment they have.
                          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            no uber-weapons and flippant usage of nukes

                            For sale : One extremely large arsenal of planet buster grade nuclear weapons

                            720bill ono

                            Send an emmissary to the Hive for further discussion.
                            Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think any one launching nuke weopons would end the apolyton region as all other nations would also launch...
                              GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71

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