I will be changing destination

[ElmoTheElk]

Still don't understand 1 thing: If you have 3 units at the beginning of the game (4 for Russia), then how can you contol more then 3 (4 for Russia) supply centers?

The dead line is 29th April 2001, 8:00 GMT, so that means we all have to send our orders some days before that (or at least the first ones). Do we play 1 turn a week?

Elmo

[VetLegion]

C'mon people, send your moves, I already have, hurry up! lol, just kidding, take your time

I have sent email to everybody, I hope recent hacker problems with servers here in Croatia havent affected the delivery. Until now I got replies from 3 states.

Joker, ok glad to hear that. But you expect our Diplo mail to have less then 2 mb? Official titles of English King alone take a few kb of text

I am using a map from http://home.earthlink.net/~crockford/diplomacy.html when I get confused with borders

I found one particulary good java map (with pieces) on the maps website, but I havent figured out how to save it to work on hard disk (offline)

S. Kroeze, are rules X.8 and X.9 a bit conflicting of not? They seem like same situation but with different outcome to me

[S. Kroeze]

S. Kroeze, are rules X.8 and X.9 a bit conflicting of not? They seem like same situation but with different outcome to me

Good question!
In example 8 the Russian attack A War-Sil is not supported, so it doesn't dislodge the German army in Sil, nor does it cut its support.
In example 9 the Russian attack A Pru-Sil is supported (by the army in War), so it dislodges the German army in Sil and it cuts its support to the attack A Ber-Pru.
When in this example there wouldn't be that supporting Russian army in War, causing the dislodgement of A Sil, the situations would indeed be identical!

So basically this is the rule:

• A support is always cut when the supporting unit is dislodged
• A support is normally cut by any unsuccessful attack on the supporting unit, unless this attack originated from that same province into which the supporting unit was giving support

I am using a map from http://home.earthlink.net/~crockford/diplomacy.html when I get confused with borders

A very neatly arranged map indeed! Yet I have one point of criticism: Sweden and Kiel should be coloured green too.

[The diplomat]

Hi everybody!
I finally realized that this is the thread for our game.
Anyway, I am excited about playing.
Since this is my first game, I want to make sure that I understand how things work. During the diplo phase, everybody talks to each other, making deals and such. Then, during the move phase, we send our moves to the GM who sorts them out and posts the outcomes. right?
How do we know when the diplo phase ends?

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

[TempLeland]

That's pretty much how I understood it. The diplomacy phase goes on all the time, but it's probably a good idea not to leave the negotiations to the last minute. Also, I dare suggest that players follow etiquette and don't talk about their moves until they are made public (I mean, it's more polite to say "I will support you in the eastern front" and not do it than to say "I have already given my support to you" and not do it. If lying is allowed, we can at least be courteus about it. ) or discuss retreats.

Speaking of which, how will the retreats be handled?

[amjayee]

Hmmm, quite an active thread, this one.

I was thinking; should we ditch the abbreviations and refer to spaces, attacks, convoys etc. with their real names? It would look more like real diplomacy that way. This would prevent confusions, and also in an email game it really doesn't slow things down or anything.

I'm having real fun examining the map and figuring out the best strategies. This is a cool game! Also negotiating is fun.

VetLegion: That message was my first diplomacy message, so I got a little over-excited, especially with my titles. In future, I will be a little less formal and refer to myself only as the King of England. But anyway, I think an important part of the game is to role-play a little and negotiate formally.

Forgot to say: I agree with Elmo about everyone writing a description of their moves. Furthermore, I think it would be great if everyone writes a short summary of what they have been up to during each turn; who they have negotiated with, what results they got, what were there true intentions. This way we would get a little history book of our game. Perhaps the players could send their summaries to gamesmaster after the deadline of each season? And saving emails is a good idea too, I have an own folder for my diplomacy emails. After the game, perhaps also the sent emails could be published... I think that way we could learn a lot.

And welcome, The Diplomat!

[This message has been edited by amjayee (edited April 24, 2001).]

[The Joker]

This thread truly is active! You all do some GGS work in stead, you hear!!!

Anyway, I have not recieved an email from you Vet. I don't know why, my adress works for everybody else. Perhabs you should try mailing me again?

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"All that monsters fear is the day."
- Kashmir

GGS Website

[S. Kroeze]

Welcome Diplomat!
We are all most happy that you were willing to join our game. Thank you!

During the diplo phase, everybody talks to each other, making deals and such. Then, during the move phase, we send our moves to the GM who sorts them out and posts the outcomes. right?
How do we know when the diplo phase ends?

Diplomacy was originally invented to be played face to face. During such a game the GM will inform the players that the diplomacy period has ended. From that moment diplomacy and other conversation are not allowed any longer as all players write down their moves.
Of course when played by mail or e-mail it is impossible to end the diplomacy period formally, so players can negotiate as long as they think it still useful, till the last minute or beyond. Of course at some point these negotiations are no longer meaningful. It is my intention to observe the deadlines most strictly. Yet it is always possible that very compelling reasons will cause a GM to make an exception.
I wouldn't recommend anyone to reveal his orders before. As long as you haven't received my game report and the adjudication nothing is final.

Speaking of which, how will the retreats be handled?

When there is a possibility that any or several of your units will be dislodged, you should make a list of retreats in order of preference for each unit that is thus threatened. An example:
A Gal-Vie (retreats: 1.Bud 2.Ukr 3.Sil 4.War)

When forced to retreat the GM will work through this list: Is a retreat to Budapest allowed? To Ukraine? Into Silesia?
When there is no empty adjoining province on the board to which the rules allow the unit to retreat, the unit is disbanded. In this example, when this army could not retreat to Budapest, nor to Ukraine, Silesia or Warsaw, it would be disbanded, even when it could have retreated to Bohemia or Rumania. Probably the player who made these orders didn't desire this to happen. A player may choose to disband a unit rather than retreat it.
When you don't give retreat orders -accidentally or deliberately- a dislodged unit will always be disbanded.

[VetLegion]

S. Kroeze,

ok, I get it. Thanks for map correction, that is quite useful...

amjayee,
lol, but I like formalities. The way I see it it not only spices up the game, but provides a necessary "role playing" element. When King of Italy backstabbes his dearest ally I want it to be clear that it is him (doing it for the benefit of his realm) and not Šimun nor VetLegion, ie I do not do backstabbing in real life that much
You all may think I am exaggerating, but I have played games of Risk in which same things happen, and people can get very irritated with each other ... it usualy clears over a beer or two or three
I think I can see this game in a few turns and I dont want anyone holding grudges against me after it is over.

Compare imaginary text, in amjayee usual style :

from amjayee, to VetLegion
yo dude! howz things? 3v3rything O.K here, gunna conquer the europe s00n
S0, say me n33ds Kiel thing, u 0K with that? If u n0t, hey Im gunna kill ya anyways, s0 d0 w3 have a deal? ( & dontcha think ch3ating my ass, I gonna h4ck your machine be4 u say GGS )

with this, more formal effort:

from King of England, Scotland, Wales, Emperor of India ... etc, etc
to King of Italy
Greetings your majesty!
We hope you are going strong! We ourselves as you may know ... bla, bla

I like the later more, and I will do so in my posts. I have never played diplomacy before so maybe our GM could tell us how it is usually done in email games?

by some chance, I also proposed GM to use full names of provinces to avoid confusion.

Joker,
you havent got it? weird, ok, I ll send it again (though things have changed a bit now, heh)

[VetLegion]

lol, me and GM online at the same time, pity I dont use ICQ anymore

I just wanted to note that to get a feeling of best in game diplomacy you have to get yourselves Europa Universalis! S. Kroeze I think you may like this game very much, it is very historically accurate, but fun too.

and I am saving my mails too (I have all mails I ever sent/recieved)
but I oppose sending too much data to GM. I dont trust him
but seriously, what if you send your plans to me instead of GM (just type in wrong email)? that happenes... I think we can reconstruct the flow of game after it is done more safely.

[amjayee]

I found a really swell software for making siplomacy plans. It's called WarRoom, and it's excactly what the name implies; a complete, well working official Diplomacy map, with some cool interactive functions. Also, you can place units freely on the map, move them around, and even give the units orders and then resolve the moves. A really nice package, it gives me a feeling of a real leader of a nation in war. Get it here: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/Red...n/WarRoom.html

I will try to write a short summary of my actions after each turn; that way, it is easier to remember what really happened. Other's don't have to do the same, but it would be good. And what Vet said is true; we must try to remember that this is a game, and also quite stringly a role-playing game. Myself, I've assumed a role which I think suits best my situation, and try to play that role; it's not what I really am. I'm not so proud in reality.

[chrispie]

I've started taking notes now in a text file, so I have a profile on all of you , I will try and keep it updated throughout the game, including my plans for European Domination!

And don't worry if you beat the living crap out of me, I won't take it personally! lol I'm sure everyone will remember it's only a bit of fun, and a learning experience for us GGSer's, so we can find what works in player interaction and what doesn't.

[chrispie]

Grr, double post.
[This message has been edited by chrispie (edited April 26, 2001).]

[VetLegion]

glad we agree

amjayee, great program! especially for conflict resolution an pieces. I ran a simulation and found out quite a few things.

[S. Kroeze]

WARNING to ElmoTheElk

I have by now twice sent you an e-mail message that couldn't be delivered. Today I will send you the game report of "SANGLOTS", Spring 1901. When it doesn't arrive, please inform me as soon as possible by phone, e-mail or in writing!

quote: This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: Your message was not delivered because the destination computer was not reachable within the allowed queue period. The amount of time a message is queued before it is returned depends on local configura- tion parameters. Most likely there is a network problem that prevented delivery, but it is also possible that the computer is turned off, or does not have a mail system running right now. The queue containing messages destined for theelk.com was expired by the Postmaster of relay2.zonnet.nl. The following recipients did not receive your message: Please reply to if you feel this message to be in error. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Origineel Bericht ----- Van "Sander Kroeze" Datum Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:12:18 GMT Aan Onderwerp gamestart 'SANGLOTS' (again!) PS: Door een mij niet geheel duidelijke oorzaak blijkt dit bericht niet aangekomen te zijn. Ik verstuur daarom dit bericht nogmaals in de hoop dat het nu wel aankomt. Met vriendelijke groet! PPS: Als het bericht nu wel aankomt, wil je mij dit dan even bevestigen? Het is tenslotte erg belangrijk dat we op onze communicatiekanalen kunnen vertrouwen. Bij voorbaat dank!