Banana Embassy

[Maniac]

Originally posted by PJayTycy
maybe they changed their mind and don't want to say who it is, while trying to blame snoopy ?

I don't think that should/would be allowed. We can always just ask snoopy ourselves.

[Kataphraktoi]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Right and I was thinking 'what Musa'? That's GS!

Means we're not isolated on a small continent I guess, rather on one end of a big one.

pretty sure musa is a roleplaying term for their religious leader, like a great prophet\great turnplayer.

[PJayTycy]

2 messages from the bananas:
they have created accounts to chat via IM:
google IM : thediplomaticbanana@gmail.com
MSN : thediplomatic_banana@hotmail.com

The accounts will not be checked for emails. The only valid email account for them is still = thediplomaticbanana@yahoo.com

[binTravkin]

If we chat with them at all, we should never be giving out any information aside what we already mentioned in diplomatic messages.

[PJayTycy]

To our wise friend Yang and his most faithful followers,

We understand your concern with the possibility of there being an exploitation of one nation over the other if there was too great of a scientific advantage gained. In the interest of a long-well intended friendship, we would not want perceived exploitation to come between us.

Therefore, we propose putting a "gold value" on tech research. The number we have been kicking around the Banana Orchard has been 1 Gold for every 10 research points.

Based on your proposal & figures:

TEAM BANANA
meditation 114
priesthood 85
writing 171
alphabet 429

ALPHA CENTURIANS
fishing 57
sailing 143
iron working 286
hunting 57
masonry 114
pottery 114

...there would be 128 point difference, currently in your favor. In the nature of friendship, in this and all future deals, we propose that the number should always be rounded down. So that would take you to 120 research point difference - 12 Gold to Team Banana.

However, as with research time of Alphabet, you will probably tip the scale such, that we will probably be owing you Gold instead. In which case, we would use the same standard of measurement.

We think it is important that we continue to coordinate our research into the future so we can be trading techs that are worth both our while.

It is also important that the technologies are gifted as soon as the technology is discovered.

With the numbers as they are we are willing to gift 6 of the gold at the beginning of the agreement with any difference paid to you or us after these techs have been discovered and traded.

Last, on the tech trade agreement, I should think it important that we discuss a term in length or scope. While we whole heartedly hope that this agreement would last through all of histoy, we understand that circumstances can vary. Thus, in order for us to remain on terms throughout this tech agreement, I think it important for us to look revisit the agreement as we enter a new "Age". If everyone is still in agreement we continue; or we renegotiate our strategy and possibly the gold conversion.

As for our new found friends, we do hope that we can add them to our alliance one day, however, as previously mentioned, it is far to early to tell. We shall let time dictate our relationship with them, just as we did with you, and we can only hope that it developes as well.

We send you the best wishes from our Wisemen and The Great Banana whose name we dare not utter.

Viva la Banana,
-The Diplomatic Banana

33,36

A research/gold rating is dangerous to agree on. A 10/1 rating is especially cheap. In that case neither of us is motivated to do the research (as it's a lot cheaper to buy techs) and we'll end up on a tech-backward continent. I'd rather give them another tech to equal things out. We could tell them we originally offered them animal husbandry, but left that out of the offer just before sending the message when we realized they should already have it. Tell them we are open to other proposals along our respective tech-paths which are balanced out better. Maybe offering them we'll research archery for them too (although this gives them better defenders) ?



On a side-note : has anyone found any structure/meaning/... in the numbers they use to sign their messages ?

[Maniac]

As far as I'm concerned, as a rule of thumb the value of beakers per gold depends on how many teams already have the tech. If only one civ had the tech under discussion, then one should get two beakers per one gold paid. If six teams already have the tech, then the last team should receive seven beakers per one gold paid.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I would propose that I give rougly this response

"Opps, looks like I messed that up, it was suposed to be equal points. Seems their was some confusion on my part over the math their, aparently due to Animal Husbandry being droped. Seems you forgot to include it in your list of techs you sent us and this caused it to get included in the proposal my team mates worked out as they thought you didn't have it. I on the otherhand knew you had it already and droped it without checking the math. We can perhaps substitute some other tech to achive equal points which was our intent.

In any event this raises a good point, its not always going to be feasable to trade two piles of techs witch equal costs so some methond of "making change" needs to be agreed upon. An agreed gold exchange rate might work but it will be some time before gold trading is enabled. In the meantime some kind of IOU system in which any imbalance in an exchange results in "beaker credits" that are held untill the next exchange. Which ever side has beaker debt will gift techs to the other side to pay the dept as soon as possible."

[binTravkin]

Wouldnt want to exchange archery with them, we can even say a reason, that we are not planning to research it in a near future as military is of secondary importance to us.

The gold thing seems poor. 10b per g is too low, as Maniac points out.

Also, the beaker debt thing can cause problems I believe.

And this tech value measuring in beakers is probably the biggest problem of all as techs tend to be weighed differently ingame.
Also some techs are substantially more expensive due to prerequisites being a side-step from techpath.


If we trust them enough we could be just exchanging techs on a basis that we trade techs with somewhat equal beaker count and whomever owes in this exchange should offer a better deal next time.

[PJayTycy]

Impaler, Mighty Mouth of Yang,

Did my messenger fall ill or become the prey of wolves? Is there something wrong with our generous offer? Did we offend?

Whoa BANANA!
-The Diplomatic Banana


33

Impaler, your message looks ok to send on as it is.

[binTravkin]

We have not heard from Sheng-Ji Yang (Impaler & Maniac?) since Oct 31 and thediplomaticbanana sent word to Sheng-Ji Yang on 11/06 & 11/10.

We should compile the message at last.
A deputy-chancellor appointment would probably be in place while Impaler is inactive (I hope that's temporary), or someone with enough skill could just write it.

[PJayTycy]

Sent out this:


First of all, our sincerest apologies for the delay. There indeed seems to be a problem with our messengers. There was a message ready to be sent out to you some time ago, but due to the death of our previous messenger, not many volunteers are left to take the dangerous walk through no-mans-land. However, due to the steady progress on the road we are building towards you, a courageous man stood up and is now delivering the message to you that had been compiled previously for Impaler:

"Opps, looks like I messed that up, it was suposed to be equal points. Seems their was some confusion on my part over the math their, aparently due to Animal Husbandry being droped. Seems you forgot to include it in your list of techs you sent us and this caused it to get included in the proposal my team mates worked out as they thought you didn't have it. I on the otherhand knew you had it already and droped it without checking the math. We can perhaps substitute some other tech to achive equal points which was our intent.

In any event this raises a good point, its not always going to be feasable to trade two piles of techs witch equal costs so some methond of "making change" needs to be agreed upon. An agreed gold exchange rate might work but it will be some time before gold trading is enabled. In the meantime some kind of IOU system in which any imbalance in an exchange results in "beaker credits" that are held untill the next exchange. Which ever side has beaker debt will gift techs to the other side to pay the dept as soon as possible."

Just for reference, here is the original proposal, which included a transfer of animal husbandry from us to you:

meditation 114
priesthood 85
writing 171
alphabet 429
==============
total 799

fishing 57
sailing 143
ironworking 286
hunting 57
masonry 114
animal husbandry 143
================
total 800

This was, to our beliefs, the closest we could get, but as pointed out by Impaler, we dropped animal husbandry at the last moment without a substitute. If, contrary to our current beliefs, you do not have animal husbandry yet, we will add it back to the deal. If you do have it, we are open to suggestions from you for a more balanced deal, as long as the basic techs stay the same.


May we inquire as to how far your workers are with the road? Ours have arrived at 2 tiles west of the river, and estimate to cross the river in about 10 turns.

We also don't understand why you can't tell us anything about the tribe you met. Can you communicate with them? Do they speak our language? What's the colour of their belts ? Do they like bananas ?


The unknown courageous soldier,
for the glory of Yang, Team Alpha Centauri, and all our friend on this world

[binTravkin]

I think I see a problem with this tech trade proposal - writing.

We have best gold income, we should take advantage of that as much as we can and research Writing asap to build a library in Beijing.
We also lack other techs that are immediately needed - Fishing is probably the closest we need if our next settler is founded on the coast, Sailing and Archery coming as next candidates.
So if we remove Animal Husbandry from our side, we should definitely research Writing.
That will lead them being 27 beakers short in their part of the deal.

[Maniac]

Followers of the Big Yang,
Apology accepted.

re: the tech agreement
We will review this proposal. I think we are close to a deal. Is there a time that would be good to chat via Google Talk, MSN, or Yahoo IM? Nights (GMT -6, US CT) work best for me. Let me know but give us a day or two to discuss your latest offer.

re: the other tribe
A traveler named Snoopy369 gave us guidelines about what can be said. I fear that I might have already bent the rules in letting you know that they even exist. in the spirit of AC/Banana friendship, when they reply again I will try to mediate communication between the three of us.

OOOOOH BANANAS!
The Diplomatic Banana

I do think we should ask snoopy about those rules. This is the first time ever I hear about such a rule existing. Surely people should be allowed to say anything they want to another civ.

[Lacero]

It would be good if snoopy can confirm he did actually tell them this and they're not making it up. Then we can take it to the public forums where rules discussion belongs.

[Lacero]

It would be good if snoopy can confirm he did actually tell them this and they're not making it up. Then we can take it to the public forums where rules discussion belongs.