Gathering Storm Embassy

[PJayTycy]

message 1

Dear Centaurians

Please consider this our apology for being late to respond to your last message. I, nye, have been looking for a replacement myself as RL obligations have occupied more and more of my time. I will undertake to pay more attention in the absense of someone else from the Storm stepping forward and being able to take over for me.

As for the treaty, please see our seperate message. We accept your wording for point 2, and Nana's wording for point 1 and their proposed 5th point. The treaty would incorporate ideas from each and thus all can be happy with it.
Turning to our tech trade plans:
----------------------
GS-AC tech trade

We will gladly accept your offer of adding Polytheism to the tech deal to make it ~98% even.
We would like to trade as fast as possible, so here is a proposal to do this trade in 2 steps:

From GS to AC <=> From AC to GS
After we discover Alphabet :
Masonry (114) + Polytheism (143) <=> Iron Working (286)
257 <=> 286

After you finish Maths :
Archery (85) + Maths (357) <=> Alphabet (429)
442 <=> 429

Total : 699 <=> 715
How is your research going currently? Do you think Masonry and Polytheism will be ready to trade when we finish Alphabet (in 9-10 turns, around 1000 BC).
When do you think the second part could be done (ie: your ETA on Maths)?
----------------------

We are on Mathematics first. We will finish in ~9 turns. After that we can quickly finish Polytheism and rapidly complete Masonry (7 or 8 turns total). We can then proceed with tech exchanges. Alternatively we could send Mathematics for Iron Working and then follow up with Masonry, Polytheism, and Archery for Alphabet.

Regarding maps and scouting. We thank you for the map you sent us. Our warrior is currently in the far North. The map you provided will aid us in our decisions of where to go. The land that is apparent to the West is interesting.

As for your explorer's route, our second city was South of our shot. We have just settled a third city that is on the map we provided. Following close to your porposed path you should still be able to get through as expanded borders are not high on our list of priorities at the moment. As for moving next to our borders, don't worry about it. We are well on the road to a lasting freindship and we feel no reservations in the activity of your scouts. We would also be happy to provide information if we spot dangers to aid your scouts in opening a sea route although it is unclear when we will be able to found a port to help with trade routes.

We hope that all continues to go well for our developing relationship and the treaty between Nana, ACen and ourselves.

Regards
nye

[PJayTycy]

message 2

Greetings to Centaurians and Bananas
From prior messages and chats, we at Gathering Storm see these as the final terms of an agreement that would be acceptable to all of us. Gathering Storm is prepared to sign this deal as it is. Please let us know if these terms are acceptable to each of you and we may all proceed to ratify the treaty.

1. technology trades will be based on beakers with equality being the goal.
2. each of the three civs agrees not to retrade any technology acquired in trade from one of the three; without prior agreement of the researching nation.
3. trades arranged are kept even if a tech to be traded for is acquired by other means.
4. each of the three teams agrees to an embargo on the team known as Vox. Technology will never be traded with Vox and borders with them will remain closed forever.
5. tech trade arrangements among member nations will be common knowledge to member nations - ie. when a trade deal is finalized all 3 members will be notified even if only 2 parties are involved in the trade.

Regards
Gathering Storm

[binTravkin]

About that ~9 + 7/8 turn thing - do we have that much time?
I guess the GE is done in 13 turns.
To wait for 3 more would be unwise.
We should note them that we're really interested in acquiring masonry before 13 turns, otherwise we need to research it ourselves because of a wonder building schedule.

[PJayTycy]

Won't that reveal too much of our pyramid plans ? Will they still give masonry after they see we have a GE and we asked to get masonry sooner ?

Researching Masonry ourselves will take 4 or 5 turns. It would fit nicely in the 6-turn gap we have between completion of alphabet and the GE birth.

So, we should do one of these:
-> Shut up about the late timing and delay our GE
-> Tell GS straightforward that 16 turns is too late for us to acquire masonry and we would like to drop it from the trade in exchange for an IOU.

Begging them to get it sooner for such and such reasons, and then in the end still depending on their willingness to give it to us puts us in a position where they have power over us and can make demands.

[binTravkin]

-> Tell GS straightforward that 16 turns is too late for us to acquire masonry and we would like to drop it from the trade in exchange for an IOU.

Express in such edition:

-> Tell GS straightforward that 16 turns is too late for us to acquire masonry and we would like to drop it from the trade in exchange for an IOU unless they manage to do it in 12(?) turns.

What's IOU anyway?
This edition is no worse than previous because in any case we give away some information about what are we planning.
We could lie that we're going for Lighthouse (and couple that with the fact we're going to acquire Sailing from Bananas shortly), whereas we're in fact going to build it anyway, or lie that we are gonna hookup marble asap.

Delaying GE seems to me an extremely bad course of action..

[binTravkin]

In fact we'd want masonry together with polytheism much sooner - right when we're done with Alphabet, but that seems quite impossible to negotiate this late

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by binTravkin
What's IOU anyway?

I Owe yoU [...something...]

Originally posted by binTravkin
This edition is no worse than previous because in any case we give away some information about what are we planning.

Yes, but there are two ways of asking them if it in't possible to get it in 13 turns:
-> If we don't get it in 13 turns, no problem, no need to bother, we'll research it ourselves.
-> We'd really like to get it from you in 13 turns, but if it isn't possible we'll wait some extra turns untill you are ready.


Depending on how much turns they need on polytheism, they might be able to finish masonry just in time if they do it first after maths.


Have you seen the massive amount of floodplains GS has access to (on the Vox screenshot)?

[binTravkin]

PJay, a few things then need to be discussed first:

- are we willing to delay Pyramids (I am certainly NOT)
- are we willing to depend on them on Masonry (here I am NOT too)

The idea of this time between Alphabet and GE was that either we get Poly + Masonry from them and get a quick religion by Monotheism, or we research Masonry just in time to be ready with GE birth (if they fail to provide it, that is).
We shouldn't delay any of our plans because of this minor tech, if they can't provide it, okay, we have it ourselves and the poly deal is not actual anymore either (at least for a time), as we're likely to go Machinery after GE.

[-SafaN-]

I'd also go for a new deal. I don't wanna delay masonry.

Just say we need to connect the marble for a wonder, and that we need it fast. If they can't provide it in 10 turns, we better research it ourself and the deal is off.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Lets say (truthfully) that we want to make a stab at monotheism immediately after Alphabet to give us the best chance of getting it before one of the other teams and it would very desirable for us if these could be available for trade first. If they could switch away from Math to polish off Masonry/Polytheism in time for our Alphabet completion we would be most greatfull and could compensate them with Tech credits. I think an offer of 25 credits plus an additional 25 if we successfully win Judaism would be an attractive offer.

[binTravkin]

An offer to exchange Metal Casting for Construction would also be a pretty good deal, seeing how Construction is a tad less expensive and MC has forges.

[binTravkin]

I have an idea:
Let's say that we would really want to get Judaism as there is lack of hapiness resources in our area, as well as for the valuable Organized Religion trait, thus if they provide us with Masonry and Polytheism on the same turn we finish Alphabet, we'd be very thankful and give Monotheism back as a gift , once it's researched (whereas they could use it after capturing the holy city of Hinduism).

[Impaler[WrG]]

I like the Monotheism trade back proposal, MC for Construction depends on how are military situation is looking, if Cats are needed at that point then I might go for it otherwise I think it presents a bit much of a boost to GS, so long as we keep a forge monopoly we will be first in Industry easily.

Knowlage of this Iron resource would be quite valuable to GS, they would have time to extend their culture with a monument and mine it after we trade them IW. This puts Vox is greater danger as GS might decide to pop out some swords and try to crush them, I wondering to what level we should warn Vox, I don't want to go all the way to confiding in them, if they were conquered their players might join GS and we would be revealed. Dont reveal any info that could be considered a betrayal of GS, our agreements with GS don't require us to spy on Vox and were free to talk to them so long as we don't trade anything in game.

[binTravkin]

Well, I believe advising Vox to found their second city on a copper/iron resource isn't really a betrayal..

[Lacero]

..because we were just trying to help out GS for when they inevitably take the city, right?

I mean they told us they'd already won the war and it was just a matter of time, helping Vox can only help GS in the future.