Imperio: Diplomacy Thread #2

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Any opinions on a gold for wines trade with imperio? It would allow us to double-draft some cities.

I say go for it. Maybe it will give Imperio a false sense of security, although it will help them to prepare for war too, if they follow our power graph or spot our assembling stack at Cape Town...

-Kylearan

[MyOtherCar]

But we would loose the wines the moment we declare on Imperio and I don't think the angries will have worn off by then. So I don't think it would benefit us at all (maybe only if we draf to attack Templars), while the gold definitely would benefit Imperio.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

But we would loose the wines the moment we declare on Imperio and I don't think the angries will have worn off by then.

I think it will. The draft anger lasts for 10 turns, correct? We need at least that time to finish off templars someway or another, heal our units, and move into position to smash Imperio's stack or city. (Or alternatively, assemble a large enough stack at Cape Town).

And even if not, it's only for a couple of turns we suffer angry faces from the lost resource. Until then, the trade will have benefited us more than the anger will hurt us, IMHO.

My only concern is the help it will give Imperio; but then I think Team Realms Beyond can squeeze more out of an extra happy face than Imperio ever could, given their play so far.

-Kylearan

[sooooo]

@MyOtherCar: It's us that gets gold (2 happy with forge) and imperio that gets wine, not the otherway round. I wasn't thinking T1 draft, T2 draft same city, that would be silly. But we have the option of T1 draft, T6 draft, so if the deal is cancelled then there's only a maximum of 5 turns that we have to deal with double draft anger without the 2 happy.

[ruff_hi]

only down side is it would reset the 10-turn inforced peace ... wouldn't it?

[MyOtherCar]

@Sooooo: Oh, you mean real gold! I was thinking somehow gold/turn.
@ruff_hi: yes a new deal would reset the peace-counter

[sooooo]

only down side is it would reset the 10-turn inforced peace ... wouldn't it?

Hmm, I wasn't aware of this. Sunrise?

[T-hawk]

I don't think a resource or any other per-turn deal enforces a peace treaty. IME in SP, the only things that enforce a peace treaty are:

1) both civs accept a deal for "Peace Treaty (10 turns)" when at war
2) a civ demands something (not a trade) and is paid

Sure, we can offer the trade with Imperio. Hard to see how it hurts us in any way.

[darrelljs]

I think its a good trade...eventually though we'll be at war and the Gold will go away. But a little draft anger won't kill us .

Darrell

[Sullla]

I also think it's a good idea, as it builds up (false) trust with Imperio. The other thing to consider is that we need to try and persuade Imperio to Close their borders with PAL. The proper timing for this is probably right after they declare war on Templars, and we appear to be working hand in hand. Even if Imperio does go running back into PAL's arms when we declare war on them, PAL won't trust them one bit afterwards.

[sunrise089]

I'm fine with it, but we have to make sure we don't rely on the gold long term, since it will disappear when relations deteriorate.

@Sooooo - T-Hawk is correct, only gifts create enforced peace.

[darrelljs]

Actually, gifts don't create enforced peace. Enforced peace is a result of giving in to a demand (or granting a request for a gift if relations are Pleased/Friendly). If we want to somehow get a forced peace, we need to trick someone into asking us for a tech or cash for nothing.

Edit: Actually that's what T-Hawk said and what Sunrise meant I think .

Darrell

[sooooo]

@Darrell: I don't even think that is true in mp. We have been gifting techs back and forth for nothing with banana and PAL and there has been no notification of a 10-turn peace like there is in sp.

[sunrise089]

@Darrell: I don't even think that is true in mp. We have been gifting techs back and forth for nothing with banana and PAL and there has been no notification of a 10-turn peace like there is in sp.

You're probably right Soooo, I was trying to remember from the 2 or 3 non-always-war games I've played.

[darrelljs]

Well, it was added specifically to prevent the player from taking stuff from the AI right before a DoW, so it makes sense they disabled it for MP.

Darrell