Turnplayer Thread #3

[Kodii]

It doesn't seem reasonable to hold on to the iron, and pikemen aren't going to be that crucial. I vote to cancel the deal unless we can negotiate an extension.

[T-hawk]

Can we take the iron discussion to the Banana diplomacy thread?

[sunrise089]

Edit - moved to the other thread as T-Hawk suggested.

[Sullla]

Stats for T126. (And you thought this was just Banana discussion thread #2!) I also ended our turn, as it didn't seem like there was any disagreement over builds or worker actions.

General

Current Turn:
Turn 126 - 275 AD
Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Tech:
Engineering (2t)
100% research (222 [267] beakers/turn) @ -66gpt
1057/1430 beakers overall

Gold
106g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [size 10] [guarded by Xena and Mariah]:
National Epic (4t)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library, Forge, Academy, Great Library
Great Scientist 160/200, +8 GPP/turn, due in 5t

Pink Dot [size 8] [guarded by Secretariat and Adria and Athena]:
Library (4t)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Granary, Aqueduct, Hanging Gardens
Slipping in some infrastructure, then probably more military.

China Beach [size 6] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Forge (16t) [anger duration 10t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Barracks, Lighthouse
T-Hawk optimal whipping plan: swap to worker T129, whip T130

Cape Town [size 6] [guarded by Diana and Fyre Errow and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Hannah and Christina and Aphrodite and Demeter and Affirmed and Allydar and Akara and Gladys and Nelly and Mrs Jumbo and Kitty and Kat]:
Catapult (2t)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Heroic Epic, Walls

Something Fishy [size 5] [guarded by Svava]:
Forge (5t) [anger duration 10t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Courthouse
Settler whip to follow?

Green Acres [size 4] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Forge (47t) [anger duration 2t and 12t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Lighthouse
Swap to and whip settler upon hitting size 6

Mellow Yellow [size 4] [guarded by Hera]:
Forge (8t)
Infrastructure: Granary
Project Colossus up next

Saxon the Beach [size 2] [guarded by no one!]:
Lighthouse (1t), Moai Statues (41t) [anger duration 8t]
Infrastructure: Granary

Bluebell Woods [size 1] [guarded by no one!]:
Granary (29t)
Infrastructure: none
Priorities: connect to road network, connect sheep, start building silk plantations

Non-Combat Units

Worker [Winston]:
Chopping/Mining grassland hill north of China Beach
Mining (2t)

Worker [Bernard]:
Chop/Cottage grassland river tile at Airstrip One
Chop (done!)

Worker [Mustapha Mond]:
Chop/road/plantation silks at Saxon the Beach
Building plantation (3t)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Road between Cape Town and Pink Dot
Roading (done!)

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Build road connecting Airstrip One to Bluebell Woods
Moving to tile (2t) getting in "free" roading turn along the way

Worker [Parsons]:
Help build dyes plantation at Something Fishy
Building Plantation (done!)

Worker [Syme]:
Road between Pink Dot and Cape Town
Roading (done!)

Worker [John the Savage]:
Chop/plantation/road Something Fishy's dyes
Building Plantation (done!)

Worker [Bob the Builder]:
Chop/mine/road forested plains hill at Mellow Yellow
Chopping (done!)

Worker [Serious Steve]:
Improve deer tile at Saxon the Beach
Camping deer (2t)

Worker [Energetic Erik]:
Help chop Colossus at Mellow Yellow
Moving to tile (done!)

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring Banana territory

War Elephant [Mrs. Jumbo]:
Guard Cape Town

War Elephant [Nelly]:
Guard Cape Town

Maceman [Gladys]:
Guard Cape Town

Maceman [Akara]:
Guard Cape Town

Horse Archer [Secretariat]:
Guard Pink Dot

Horse Archer [Camilla]:
Move to Cape Town, keeping an eye on snooping Imperio chariot

Horse Archer [Allydar]:
Guard Cape Town

Horse Archer [Affirmed]:
Guard Cape Town

Catapult [Kat]:
Guard Cape Town

Catapult [Kitty]:
Guard Cape Town

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot

Spearman [Mariah]:
Guard Airstrip One

Spearman [Christina]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Hannah]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard workers on the Pink/Cape road

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Move east towards the projected battlefield
10XP - our most heroic unit!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Get intel on Imperio/Templar cities

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Exploring Imperio territory

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Archer [Fyre Errow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Archer [Hera]:
Guard Mellow Yellow

Archer [Athena]:
Guard Pink Dot

Archer [Aphrodite]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Demeter]:
Move to Saxon the Beach (long way to go!)

Archer [Persepone]:
Bust fog in the north to stop barbs from appearing

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars 168EP
Jerusalem = 13 shields (+13)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Damascus = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge
Jericho = 16 shields (+9)
Infrastructure: Walls
Acre = 14 shields (+5)
Infrastructure: Monument

Damascus built something in the 50-shield range, so I'm going to say horse archer or catapult there, the best units Templars can produce right now.

Imperio 227EP
Mutal = N/A, zero shields available
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = 21 shields (+21)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine
Chichen Itza = 8 shields (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 34 shields (+13)
Infrastructure: Monument
Mayapan = 38 shields (+8)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks
Calakmul = 84 shields (+10)
Infrastructure: Monument

Second turn of "no shields invested" at Mutal, not sure that Imperio is up to there. Maybe they finished the half-completed build from earlier? Uxmal, the triple fish city, looks like a worker/settler build to me. Is Calakmul building a settler? Keep watching, and we'll know in 2t! (Really odd decision to have a city with no infrastructure be the one building a settler, if true...)

PAL 66EP
The Warning = 24 shields (+24)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Academy
Heliopolis = 41 shields (+15)
Infrastructure: Granary
Alexandria = 66 shields (+49)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Giza = 42 shields (+2)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse
Byblos = 6 shields (+2)
Infrastructure: none

It doesn't look like The Warning is building Colossus - and even if it is, we'll beat them to the wonder at current rate. On the other hand, better keep an eye on Alexandria and its bigtime shield increase...

Rabbits 48EP
Caerbannog = 76 shields (+19)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 21 shields (+4)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 20 shields (+2)
Infrastructure: none

Rabbits are working on "secret mystery death ray" project at the capital, it seems... What could they be building there?! I can't figure it out. Surely they can't be building a settler there right now... could they? Nothing else fits with the numbers though, hmmm.

Banana 0EP
Doal = 19 shields/turn (+3)
Infrastructure: none

Very quiet here.

Population census:
PAL 60->59 (size 12,9,7,7,6,6,6,5,2)
RB 46 (10,8,6,6,5,4,4,2,1)
Imp 40 (10,7,7,7,5,4)
Ban 28 (9,8,5,4,2)
Tem 26 (8,7,6,3,2)
Rab 8 (4,3,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 138gold (+14gpt)
Imperio: 274gold (-2gpt)
PAL: 117gold (-89gpt)
Rab: 36gold (-1gpt)
Banana: 43gold (+3gpt)

[sooooo]

[nitpick]
It's Diana who is heading to Saxon, Demeter is guarding Cape Town.
[/nitpick]

[regoarrarr]

Do we want to whip the lighthouse in Saxon? It has 1 turn left (54/60) and it's our last turn to get 60 whip hammers into Moai. I would recommend it.

Also, how about workboat at China Beach instead of Forge (for the 3 turns we have till worker). It needs 9 turns to go from CB to Red.

If my calculations are correct, the settler that's to be whipped at GA at size 6 will reach Red in 9 turns, if that's where we're sending it (I'm not sure)

[Dreylin]

Would it be wildly inappropriate to suggest we produce the WB for Red Dot at Cape Town? I know it's pumping military, but it'll only take 1 turn, and it's only a couple of turns movement away....

[sunrise089]

If we're going to produce naval units in Cape Town, I favor Triremes over Work Boats

[T-hawk]

Cape Town is a fine place to build a work boat. The Heroic Epic applies to work boats! So it's half the cost at Cape Town that it would be elsewhere. And the opportunity cost is half of some unit that's going to go obsolete by the time of Operation Bloodbath anyway.

Whip lighthouse in Saxon to overflow onto Moai? Mostly depends on what tile that citizen would be working. My instinct says no; we'll get that hill next to the silks mined pretty soon.

[sooooo]

@Sunrise: What is the mp-player's perspective on trebs? Worth the extra hammers?

@Regoarrarr and Dreylin: I believe our settler from Green Acres is going to Twin Peaks, so no rush for the workboat (unless I've got that wrong. It should go to Twin Peaks though)

Also, Saxon is about to go from 0 good tiles to 3 good tiles (3/0/2 lake, deer and silks) so I don't think we whip.

[Sullla]

Definitely do not whip at Saxon; we're already going to have to make a choice between three good tiles (deer with 4 food, coastal lake with 3 food/2 commerce, and silk plantation with 2 food/4 commerce) with only two population. Fortunately, we'll grow to size 3 soon enough and can work all of them.

My tentative thought is that the Something Fishy settler goes to Twin Peaks, while the Green Acres settler goes to the red spot. (I believe red is the plains hill location with the crab northwest of Cape Town, right?) And we definitely build the work boat out of Cape Town, as we still get double-shield production on it there. We don't honestly want to spend 9t moving a work boat across the map, do we?

T-Hawk has a whipping plan all set up for China Beach, and I'm afraid to muck around with it.

[sunrise089]

@Sooooo - I don't know anyone good who builds trebs in MP. They're too expensive considering they're weaker outside cities, and I'm more confident about being able to use cats on the defensive than the offensive (always possible for the enemy to flank you into oblivion on the offensive). This game may be a bit different, but I just don't like the hammer/strength conversion.

[T-hawk]

Heck, I don't even use trebs against AIs. Catapults are much more hammer efficient for splash damage, and when promoted to Accuracy are equal to trebs in bombardment efficiency per hammer. For the hammer cost of a treb, I'd rather just have a maceman.

[regoarrarr]

To whip or not to whip...

Okay let's run some numbers on whether or not to whip in Saxon. It is currently (I think) at size 2, 5/24 in the box, with 54/60 in the LH. The turn reports states 41 turns to go on Moai, so assume 41*6 = 246 done, so 54/300 on Moai.

Assuming 2 chops, which should affect both plans equally, and assuming that we focus on (i.e. we work the 4/0/0 deer, then 3/0/2 lake, then the 2/0/4 silks, then 1/2/0 plains forests (I think there are 2). If/when Moai is done, we work the 2/1/2 coast tiles with the 4th citizen (After the deer, lake and silks)

Option A: No whip on lighthouse:

T0: 5/24, 54/60 on LH (currently working lake 2/0/2 and plains forest 1/2/0
T1: 6/24, 60/60, 2 - work 3/0/2 lake and silk 2/0/1
T2: 9/24, 56/300 on Moai, 5 , work 4/0/0 deer and 3/0/2 lake (deer now done)
T5: 12/26, 62/300 on Moai, 11 , work deer, lake, silks (I think silks will be done by now?), totals 5 , 1 hammer, 6 per turn
T8: 14/28, 68/300 on Moai, 29 , now work a plains forest, totals 4 , 3 , 6 per turn
T12: 16/30, 92/300, 53 , now work another 1/2/0 tile (hoping we have one), totals 3 , 5 , 6 per turn
T17: 16/32, 142/300, 83 , now work a 2/0/2 coast, totals 3 , 5 , 8 per turn
T21: 28/32 (size 6), Moai done with 2 chops (60 each) and 2 (1 non-doubled) overflow, with 115 total since T0.

Option B: Whip the lighthouse this turn:
T0: 5/22, 114/60 on LH, working lake 2/0/2
T1: 7/22, 54 overflow + 2 base , 108/300 on Moai, 2 , working 3/0/2 lake
T2: 10/22, 110/300, 2 - now work the deer, 4 , 1 hammer, 0 per turn
T5: 11/24, 116/300, 2 - work deer and lake, 5 , 1 hammer, 2 per turn
T8: 14/26, 122/300, 8 - now work deer, lake silks, 5 , 1 , 6 per turn
T11: 16/28, 128/300, 26 - work the plains forest, 4 , 3 , 6 per turn
T14: 14/30, 146/300, 44 - work another plains forest, 3 , 5 , 8 per turn
T18: 26/30, Moai done, 6 overflow (3 non-doubled), 76 , swap 2 citizens to Moai Coast (2/1/2), total 5 , 3 , 10
T19: 16/32, 6 into next build, 86 , work another Moai coast, total 5 , 4 , 12
T21: 26/32 (size 6), 14 , 110 total since T0:

First of all, feel free to check me because I could have made (even glaringly obvious) errors, not least because I don't have the game in front of me. But, it seems like option B is the clear winner because it gains 13 for 2 and 5 .

Right?

[Zeviz]

...
My tentative thought is that the Something Fishy settler goes to Twin Peaks, while the Green Acres settler goes to the red spot. (I believe red is the plains hill location with the crab northwest of Cape Town, right?) And we definitely build the work boat out of Cape Town, as we still get double-shield production on it there. We don't honestly want to spend 9t moving a work boat across the map, do we?
...

This sounds good, but it would be better to settle Red first, since negotiating with Templars about Theology and Drama might take some time, and negotiations will end when they see Twin Peaks.