Turnplayer Thread #3

[sunrise089]

I agree if Imperio gets HBR we are in big trouble. Heck, even longbows and cats could be a problem, but if they don't work towards the jumbos I'm more inclined to think they wanted the tech for more peaceful reasons.

I also agree we should at least make supplying horse conditional on PAL canceling the elephant should Imperio research HBR.

I know in MP games the reason my GNP will soar is if I've gone on strike due to units+expansion. Perhaps this happened to PAL and they swapped to all commerce tiles.

Clams then cows seems fine.

Any could someone clarify what the deal with these pictures is? There are so many "EDIT" posts floating around I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at.

[mostly-harmless]

I very much doubt that us providing horses to PAL is of big leverage after they have taken over Rabbits land as well as apparently have access to the lost civs starting position. Surely they can get their hands back on horses.

So the the deal should be canceled first thing next turn.
If PAL really need our horses, they can come back to us asking us nicely, and making up another excuse. We can always throw in the Ivory deal then.
I just don't like them getting away with it.

mh

[Zeviz]

Imperio rejected our trade offer.

Should we try to coordinate research with Rabbits? (They might be on their way out, but they could still research something for us before they are eliminated.)

It would take us just 5 turns to build a second Galley, 3 turns for an Archer, and 7 turns for a Settler. That sounds like a good investment for establishing foothold on the Silver site.

PS There is something weird going on on the Demographics screens. The graph shows us as #1 in production, ahead of even PAL. However, Demographics tab shows us as #4 with 30 production against high of 35 (PAL?), average of 27, and low of 18. These numbers don't make sense.

PPS According to graph, PAL lost some soldier points last turn. Looks like Rabbits did manage to reinforce their city. Current power scores (with Rabbits done with their turn and 21 hours on the timer):
103000 us / 126000 PAL / 89400 average / 57000 min

[sunrise089]

I was under the impression the charts lag a turn behind the demo screen.

[Swiss Pauli]

Imperio rejected our trade offer.

That's not a good sign: Aesthetics for Maths is a clear beaker advantage for them...surely the only reason for them to turn it down is they don't want us to get closer to Construction

[mostly-harmless]

Maybe someone not "allowed" to do the decide on his own, logged in and cancelled the deal. We should at least re-offer it.
Also look at the Imperio contact thread for NAP issues.

mh

[Sullla]

Should we try to coordinate research with Rabbits? (They might be on their way out, but they could still research something for us before they are eliminated.)

It would take us just 5 turns to build a second Galley, 3 turns for an Archer, and 7 turns for a Settler. That sounds like a good investment for establishing foothold on the Silver site.

PS There is something weird going on on the Demographics screens. The graph shows us as #1 in production, ahead of even PAL. However, Demographics tab shows us as #4 with 30 production against high of 35 (PAL?), average of 27, and low of 18. These numbers don't make sense.

PPS According to graph, PAL lost some soldier points last turn. Looks like Rabbits did manage to reinforce their city. Current power scores (with Rabbits done with their turn and 21 hours on the timer):
103000 us / 126000 PAL / 89400 average / 57000 min

We may be able to coordinate some kind of action with Rabbits, but I wouldn't count on them for anything important. They are really, really far behind in tech now (they lack any Classical techs at all besides Iron Working!) and their economy is pretty abysmal. I'm pretty sure they are the team listed in last place on the GNP tracker, with a score of ~35. For comparison, we are at 92, and Imperio is leading the pack at ~130. It will take them ages to research anything worthwhile. Let's see if they manage to survive PAL's attack first before doing anything.

I think we need to find out if Imperio is planning an attack on us first before trying to settle an overseas location, even if it is a great spot. We do not want to lose the game because we were caught overstretching ourselves. (I do think we should keep the silver site in mind for the future, should it still be there down the road.)

sunrise is correct, the F9 graphs are always one turn behind the current one. The actual Demographics numbers update in real-time, and thus don't match up with the graphs often.

If you want to get into stat crunching, all you have to do is download the Excel file that I keep updated. There's no sense in doing the same work twice.

ADG Stats

[mostly-harmless]

A few things:

Reshuffling units:
IIRC there are experienced archers guarding our west coast cities while our front line archers at Cape Town have 0xp. Shouel we swap them?
Also, I normally promote at least the archer, since promoting them just before battle (to better tackle the aggressor) means any fortification bonus is set to 0%.

Workboat scout:

I suggest to divert the workboat that will be ready at Something Fishy in 2 turns to sail east as far as possible 3-4 turns to unfog that area, while we still can.
That will delay the growth of the soon to be settled west coast spot, which I personally find is worth it.

Movement of scouting warrior:

From the screenshots posted in the disputes thread we know that Heliopolis, PALs city south of our scout, has popped the second ring. Together with "The Warnings" 3rd ring, that means we have no path south for our warrior. We can explore a maximum of 7 tiles south with him (assuming no other city north The Warning) but ultimately we will have to move him along the same direction like the scout (along that roaded rice). Not a problem, but we should keep that in mind.

Movement of Scout:

Knowing now that a line of sight into a foreign city is of high value to C&D, I suggest to move the scout close to Heliopolis (PAL city) and use the 2movement ability of the scout and the existing road network (see disputes thread) to make a quick step-in-step-out movement to get a look at Heliopolis. So I would like the scout to move 1S-1SW instead of 1S-1SE as planned, as it will land him on a roaded tile.

mh

[Sullla]

Movement of Scout:

Knowing now that a line of sight into a foreign city is of high value to C&D, I suggest to move the scout close to Heliopolis (PAL city) and use the 2movement ability of the scout and the existing road network (see disputes thread) to make a quick step-in-step-out movement to get a look at Heliopolis. So I would like the scout to move 1S-1SW instead of 1S-1SE as planned, as it will land him on a roaded tile.

Roger that. (See, this is why I post the proposed moves for next turn ahead of time!) We might be able to get intel on a lot of PAL's cities using the step in - step out method of scouting. We'll also want to move onto the grassland hill tile indicated in the near future, as our Open Borders with Rabbits lets us spy out all of their cities as well.

Scouting east with SF's workboat is also an excellent idea. Definitely worth losing a couple turns of clam food in exchange for revealing the final black tiles on our continent.

[sunrise089]

Will any cities go unhappy if we reshuffle promoted archers around? Obviously I would leave units in the border cities, march the back cities' archers to the border, and then send the 0xp archers back.

[mostly-harmless]

We could use a "happy" window, just after getting Monarchy and wine hooked up.

mh

[T-hawk]

That's not a good sign: Aesthetics for Maths is a clear beaker advantage for them...surely the only reason for them to turn it down is they don't want us to get closer to Construction

Well, if they have no interest in the Aesthetics or Literature wonders, the beakers have zero value to them for quite some time to come. And us researching Aesthetics is a pretty clear telegraph that we want wonders ourselves. So it's quite understandable if they decline - why give us something vital in exchange for nothing useful?

I think we're all a bit too used to single player games against AIs that are very predictable in taking trades based on beaker count.

Also, I normally promote at least the archer, since promoting them just before battle (to better tackle the aggressor) means any fortification bonus is set to 0%.

Is this true? I always thought that only moving or upgrading a unit cancelled the fortification bonus?

[ruff_hi]

We have recently had a message from Templar. We are also planning on canceling our horse gift to PAL. There are indications that Imperio are planning a push against us.

For these reasons, I would like to see us beef up our defenses - either chariots and axes or horse archers (if we will be facing cats).

Further, settling Bad Ass would truly put the border agreement to bed with Templar (ie we could send a message saying we will not be settling any more cities between us and them after we settle BA). BA would give us a land route to our strategic resources and lock our front against our 2 foes. Actually - we discussed ages ago having a ferry (galley) between our capital and our outpost so that we could move units to reinforce it if required. We should work on getting a galley there to act as that ferry.

Q: Is settling a back yard city the best use of a settler at the current time? Should we hold this settler for BA while we build the required defensive units?

[sunrise089]

@Ruff - I favor settling BadAss, but I don't think it makes sense to sit on a settler. In the time it will take to build defensive units, we can probably build a second settler.

[mostly-harmless]

@ ruff: No, we need additional defenses for Bad Ass. So why hold the settler that long. The new back yard city does not even need protection (for a long while), as there is no fog of war nearby.

mh