Turnplayer Thread #3

[T-hawk]

Tiny micromanagement note: Mellow Yellow should work the clam (or grass forest) starting in T108, one turn before the work boat gets there. It will then work 2+4+4+4+4+4 = 22 food and grow on T114. On T108 it will have 16+4+4=24 hammers, then it will reach 30H on T114, perfectly timed to whip the granary.

Less micromanagement note: I too want to draw attention to the barbarian axe north of Airstrip One as it seems we don't have a clear plan to deal with it. Betty Hur is available, but might miss her optimal moment to attack Saxon, or might even die in the attempt.

[regoarrarr]

Could we cover our roading eastern worker with another unit, letting lady godiva deal with the barb axe?

And the c-d department should be able to tell (guess?) as to whether or not PAL whipped an army or infrastructure, right?

[Sullla]

On now to T107:

- In response to the barb axe in the north, there is no real threat there. Betty Hur gets 88% odds currently, attacking into a forested hill tile (+75% defense)! The instant that barb axe comes out of the forest tiles, Betty Hur will annihilate it. And no, I'm not going to redo orders for something like a 1% chance that we could lose the fight.

- Major news of the turn: we got an event! And a good event!



Short of popping a gold resource at Airstrip One, this was the best news we could have hoped for from an event. It's a shame it didn't come along one or two turns later, as Airstrip One (1 food away from growing) and China Beach (capped at size 4 due to specialists) didn't get any benefit. But we got a major, major boost at several other spots - in particular, at Mellow Yellow, Green Acres, and Something Fishy, which all saw their development sped up by a couple of turns as a result.

T-Hawk: we need new optimal food/shield management for the granay whip at Mellow Yellow now.

- Pink Dot finished an archer for itself. The current garrison is archer, spear, axe... solid garrison, but not enough to stop any kind of determined attack. We have two real choices here, as I see it: more military (axe) or granary. I would desperately like to build a granary here next, as Pink will be growing rapidly and it will have the Hereditary Rule garrison to grow quite large in a hurry! But if we feel insecure, we should add some more military. If we do build a granary, the best time to do so is now, right before going on a big growing spree.

Axe/spear both take 3 turns, granary would take 6. Both will come down as the city grows in size (there is one unhappy citizen not working currently, who will go back to work in two turns when we hook up the wines).

- Parsons the worker has moved to start our first cottage at Something Fishy. One of our two workers at Pink Dot will move to start the first one at Pink Dot next turn. Workers at Airstrip One are preparing to hook up the wines starting next turn.

- Research is parked at 50% (-1gpt, 52 [84] beakers/turn) to finish Monarchy. We can go as low as 20% and still finish the tech, if desired. I figured this was the best option to give us a little overrun and keep the budget stable. Let me know if someone wants to run the numbers and sees something better.

- Silliness on the eastern continent:



OK, this is just horrible map design. I mean, come on man! At least have the decency to disguise your edits a LITTLE bit! Whales never appear in non-arctic waters normally, plus you will never see six of them in a freaking line like that! Yeesh. That looks like something my five year old cousin would scribble in MS Paint.

On another note, why haven't Rabbits built a city on the red dot?!?! Three whales (3 food tiles with lighthouse), grassland cattle, and plains wheat - what a great site! Look how much we've gotten out of China Beach, which is far inferior with a mere two resources and one floodplains tile. Plus, their civ is Imperialistic, which means its speciality is spamming cities all over the map. Seriously, what were they doing for the first 100 turns of the game before being attacked by PAL?!?!

Sigh. Anyway, we're looking pretty good at the moment. Happiness crunch is about to come off (wines in 2t, ivory from PAL in 3t, Hereditary Rule, plus the ability to trade for gold/gems as we connect more wines) and our commerce is on the uptick. Heroic Epic in 2t in Cape Town.

My one fear is that we're getting locked out of the trading loop. PAL and Imperio have deals going, Banana and Templars are working together - who is our tech partner? Rabbits? (Heh) We really need to find Banana and try to get in on the action with them. They are our most natural trade partner, as the other team with population and location similar to ours...

Stats to follow.

[Sullla]

General

Current Turn:
Turn 107 - 200 BC
Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Tech:
Monarchy (1t)
100% research (52 [84] beakers/turn) @ -1gpt
388/429 beakers overall

Gold
14g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [size 5] [guarded by Xena]:
Spearman (11t)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library, Great Library
Emphasizing food and commerce

Pink Dot [size 5] [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria and Athena]:
Axeman (3t) or Granary (6t)
Infrastructure: Barracks

China Beach [size 4] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Barracks (8t)
Infrastructure: Granary, Library
Great Scientist 60/100, +6 GPP/turn, due in 7t

Cape Town [size 4] [guarded by Diana and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Fyre Errow]:
Heroic Epic (2t)
Infrastructure: Barracks

Something Fishy [size 3] [guarded by Svava]:
Library (5t) [anger duration 7t]
Infrastructure: Granary

Green Acres [size 3] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Granary (15t)
Infrastructure: none

Mellow Yellow [size 1] [guarded by Hera]:
Granary (10t)
Infrastructure: none

Non-Combat Units

Scout [Sharon]:
Scouting out the eastern continent

Worker [Winston]:
Build road on wines resource (done!)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Building road connection to Twin Peaks
Current tile (2t)

Worker [Bernard]:
Build road connection near China Beach
Roading (done!)

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Build road connection near China Beach
Roading (done!)

Worker [Parsons]:
Clear/cottage jungle tile east of Something Fishy
Moving to tile

Worker [Syme]:
Chop/mine/road grassland hill near Pink Dot
Mining (done!)

Worker [John the Savage]:
Chop/mine/road grassland hill near Pink Dot
Roading (2t)

Work Boat:
Returning to Mellow Yellow (2t)

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Waiting to capture barb city of Saxon at size 2
10XP - our most heroic unit!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Moving east to get intel on Imperio/Templar cities

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Exploring Imperio territory

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Archer [Fyre Errow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Archer [Hera]:
Guard Mellow Yellow

Archer [Athena]:
Guard Pink Dot

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars
Jerusalem = (150 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 565) = 22 shields (+11)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Jericho = (65 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 540) = 10 shields (+5)
Infrastructure: Walls

Little of note here at the moment.

Imperio
Mutal = (91 * (164 + 100)) / (3 * 617) = 13 shields (+13)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = (388 * (164 + 100)) / (3 * 633) = 54 shields (+15)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine
Chichen Itza = (287 * (164 + 100)) / (3 * 601) = 42 shields (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse
Uxmal = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Monument

Imperio decreased their Espionage spending against us, only adding 4 points this turn instead of 11, as they had been the last couple. Can they see our research already (?) We need 199 points to see theirs, and they only have 164 against us, but it may be cheaper for them since they have more EP against us than we do against them.

Lakamha is NOT building a longbow or chariot. But that could mean that they're build an elephant there! Uxmal either swapped over to a new build (with no production invested), or they chopped out something cheap like a work boat. I actually think the former happened, as we would have seen the shields show up in last turn's numbers for a forest choip.

PAL
Heliopolis = (94 * (38 + 100)) / (3 * 289) = 15 shields (-)
Infrastructure: Granary

This is almost certainly whip overflow. PAL had 56 shields in the box last turn, now it has 15. Heliopolis also now has a granary, which I don't think it had before (?) Need to start adding enemy city infrastructure into these stats too!

OK, done!

Rabbits
Caerbannog = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library
Digger's Burrow = (203 * (31 + 100)) / (3 * 369) = 24 shields (+13)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument

Rabbits finished a settler in Caerbannon, I'm 99% sure of it. Who knows about the other city, probably working on something military (?)

Waiting for mh to give us the treasury/population census numbers. (They are very helpful, please keep doing so!)

[T-hawk]

T-Hawk: we need new optimal food/shield management for the granay whip at Mellow Yellow now.

Happy to have that problem. It works out bleedily obvious. Stay on the plains hill through T109 accumulating 28H. Then workboated clams for three turns, 10+4+4+4 food is growth at end of T112. On T113 the city is size 2 with 31H in the box and there's your whip.

Granary at Pink, and have the city be ready to whip military after that. In terms of pure hammers, the granary doubles whip yield (by halving cost) and will pay back for itself after just two whips. And if it doesn't need to whip units, so much the better.

I'd say 20% research this turn, sticking to the idea of binary. Beakers in limbo have no present value.

Imperio decreased their Espionage spending against us, only adding 4 points this turn instead of 11, as they had been the last couple. Can they see our research already (?) We need 199 points to see theirs, and they only have 164 against us, but it may be cheaper for them since they have more EP against us than we do against them.

Yes, they can. The formula to see research is 0.75 * (OpponentEP + 100). We have what, 90 EP against Imperio? They'd need 0.75 * 190 = 143 to see it.

[regoarrarr]

Far be it from me to doubt the king of MM but isn't the best time to get a granary when the food box is half-full?

[ruff_hi]

Far be it from me to doubt the king of MM but isn't the best time to get a granary when the food box is half-full?

My understanding is that the answer to that question is YES, but it is a bit hard to whip a size 1 city for 30 hammers ... about as hard to whip a size 2 city for 60 hammers (2 population). Looks like T-H is getting the city to size 2 and requiring less than 30 hammers as soon as he can .

[sunrise089]

I'm (barely) OK with granary in Pink. After that though, we need all defensive-bonus military everywhere with production. Once we have sufficient defenders we can alt-build cats and HAs as soon as we have the relevant techs and smash any incoming stacks. I just don't want us putting hammers into (offensively) weak axes once we have the tech for better units.

[Zeviz]

I like the Granary in Pink for whipping.

Cottages next to Pink are a bad idea, because they will be pillaged as soon as war starts. We can't afford to waste cottage growing turns just to have them provide more gold for Templars. I'd rather spend worker turns building long term cottages near new cities.

[T-hawk]

Far be it from me to doubt the king of MM but isn't the best time to get a granary when the food box is half-full?

Yes, with a but. You are right that MY can spend a few turns at size 2 before whipping, and that granary delay won't affect its future growth cycle. At size 2, MY could collect a few extra hammers from a grassland forest. The tradeoff is that whipping ASAP starts the anger clock sooner. Usually in my solo games, the anger clock wins that tradeoff, since the city is likely to want to whip again (most often a lighthouse) before it grows to the happy cap. But that might not be right here with the happy cap quickly lifting.

The difference between Something Fishy and Mellow Yellow is that SF got the granary benefit one growth cycle sooner by whipping immediately. MY can't do that since it's going to grow to 2 the slow way anyway. (growing on clam food is way stronger than waiting another 8 turns for an unwhipped granary.)

[sunrise089]

I like the Granary in Pink for whipping.

Cottages next to Pink are a bad idea, because they will be pillaged as soon as war starts.

I don't think I've ever pillaged a cottage during an attack - it isn't worth tying units down for. Cottages are on flat land with no forests, so any units that park themselves on them and pillage are going to have to be mixed stacks pre-catapults, and then even it's a bad play because it gives us time to slave another defender.

[mostly-harmless]

I did not know that the "Can see research" cost is not equal for both parties. Hmm, have to think about that.

With respect to the event, it seems like that the food at China Beach & A1 is not wasted as the food numbers actually show 38/22 for example. Are we sure there will be no overflow?

As for Heliopolis build: they had an granary before. So a unit is much more likely.

mh

[T-hawk]

Cottages next to Pink are a bad idea, because they will be pillaged as soon as war starts.

I don't think I've ever pillaged a cottage during an attack - it isn't worth tying units down for.

Some of us are a bit too used to playing against AIs.

[Zeviz]

Some of us are a bit too used to playing against AIs.

That's true.

If humans don't pillage cottages, I agree that we need to replace all forests next to Pink with cottages.

[sunrise089]

That's true.

If humans don't pillage cottages, I agree that we need to replace all forests next to Pink with cottages.

Well the only concern is that Imperio and Templars might not attack like good human MP folks (PAL certainly will). But it is of no real consequence, because the reasons good MP players don't pillage cottages remain valid here.

We need to get those forests chopped though, since that CAN be a big problem during wartime. For example, in MP you chop forests next to your city before you even hook up your food.