Tech Discussion

[darrelljs]

Well, from a beaker standpoint it is neutral so they are getting as good as they give. True, they probably have the best shot to get the free tech themselves so it might appear we are leeching that from them, but if we dangle the threat of 2 GS bulbs in front of them, it might make them nervous enough to accept.

Darrell

[sunrise089]

Cheap to ask, right?

[sooooo]

We now have Compass (traded to Banana for HBR).

[Swiss Pauli]

Hey Swiss,

Just to stay in touch and let you know: there aren't any ideas floating in our forums on what to trade for engineering.

-cres.

Not an entirely surprising reply.

As I see it, we have three options:

1. Try to get them to accept a shared Liberalism grab,

2. Assure them we won't go for Lib if they trade us Philo for Eng then go directly to Nat.

3. Race 'em to Lib.

[sooooo]

In my opinion we shouldn't commit to 1, 2 or 3 until engineering is closer. There are issues with 2, being that if they know we won't go for it then they will sandbag it for an expensive tech. In 11 turns once we have engineering they will probably have paper and be on the way to education. At that stage we should offer the trade for philo and maybe they will be confident enough to trade it.

Also there is no point in giving up the race to lib until we need to. So in summary, I would say nothing except a "Thanks for the reply" email for about 10 turns, then reassess.

[Dreylin]

Surely if we are really serious about trying to get Liberalism first - and with strong evidence that Pal are beelining it - Engineering has to be off the table, and we have to start straight down the path ourselves now?

[regoarrarr]

Yeah that's true. Which means that ideally we need to decide by this turn and at least in the next few turns (before we turn 100% research on)

[sooooo]

Surely if we are really serious about trying to get Liberalism first - and with strong evidence that Pal are beelining it - Engineering has to be off the table, and we have to start straight down the path ourselves now?

This is true. But personally I am not really serious about getting liberalism first. Engineering is a must-have for war, which seems very likely in the near future. We cannot ignore engineering to persue one free tech that we may not even get. I like some of the ideas about trying to make a deal with PAL, but I still think they should be delayed.

[Dreylin]

I agree that we shouldn't bend ourselves out of shape trying to keep up with Pal for Liberalism, and also support Engineering as next tech ... though we may want to employ the "deselection" trick to keep Imperio on their toes while we're running at 0%.

While Pal are distracted pursuing Liberalism and trying to erradicate the Rabbits, do we want to look at our options for grabbing one of the other Aesthetics Wonders (albeit semi-slowly in a back line city)?

I would hate to see another team grab Zeus ... although 3 Monuments is a pain for us to have to build - but would lay important ground-work for a late-game Cultural push.

What about Parthenon?

(Clearly the war will take preference, however we shouldn't ignore these option.)

[Sullla]

We MIGHT be able to get to Liberalism first if we dropped everything else we were doing and sped for it right now. But with PAL having Philosophy tech over us, it's still doubtful at this point. Cutting some kind of deal with them is probably the best way to go, unless we can find some way to acquire Philosophy from PAL.

I don't think it makes sense for us to race PAL and have us both researching identical techs. Wouldn't it be better for us to pool our research, cut a deal, and leapfrog far ahead of everyone else on the board in tandem? I think PAL would absolutely go for something along those lines, especially because the only other major power (Imperio) has been untalkative and hostile to both of us.

[regoarrarr]

I think I'm hearing a consensus building to go for Engineering and let PAL have liberalism, which I think I agree with.

So, the question then becomes how to play it with PAL. We certainly don't have to let THEM know that we're backing off.

In fact, I think we should try and work out a deal with them where we share in the techs (a la what someone (darrell?) posted upthread),

[Swiss Pauli]

We can propose the 'shared Liberalism' deal, but I don't see it working: the Warning has been at size 10 for a while, and could well be preparing a GS to bulb Edu. Even if this is wrong, I'm sure they're confident that they'll beat us to Liberalism, given that they are 1k beakers ahead of us right now. They wouldn't be 'wasting' research (in their eyes) as they are in the lead, and can keep the benefits all for themselves.

[darrelljs]

We can propose the 'shared Liberalism' deal, but I don't see it working: the Warning has been at size 10 for a while, and could well be preparing a GS to bulb Edu.

Could be, but the proposed deal is beaker neutral with exception of the Liberalism tech (which they are to give us for "free"). I'm sure they would rather have us burn our own GS than use one of their own. And, like sunrise said, its cheap to ask. If they say no, they'll probably counter propose and give us the opportunity to bring up the advantage no tech brokering is giving them, and maybe toss in a consideration of some gold or beakers towards an unbalanced future tech trade, e.g. Gunpowder for Guilds or Banking.

Darrell

[Swiss Pauli]

I'm going to draft something in the PAL thread to see what they come back with. Seeing as we're running 0% research, we've got a bit of time for back and forth, so we won't have to put all our cards on the table straight away.

[Swiss Pauli]

PAL seems to be lining up to sling Astro from Liberalism, which surely makes them a lot less likely to go for our 'shared Liberalism' deal, as one surely wants to keep a monopoly on the New World as long as possible. This could, however, leave the door open for us if we go straight to Liberalism, skipping Engineering, as Optics has reduced their beaker lead over us. Should we go for it?

I say 'no', as I think PAL will have a GS up their sleeve, and we get more benefit from going to Engineering next.