Team Info and Contacts - Templars

[Dreylin]

Three things:

The first "our" in the second sentence should be a "your".

Haven't we already promised our second Wines to PAL?

Do we want to reveal our full weakness to our other neighbour?

[sooooo]

I am slightly concerned that if we send that message out then Templars will mobilise to attack us. That's what I'd do in their position. But I'm not sure we have much choice.

[Swiss Pauli]

We shouldn't send that message. We have a good chance with PAL for horses/copper, and who knows what goodies Banana may have? Also let's not forget this from Templar:

Regarding techtrading, we are happy to trade techs, however, the
techdeals already in place prohibit us from trading the specified deal
with your team.

This either means no MC at all, or not for Aesthetics and Literature. I assume it's the former, seeing as Imperio seemed interested in giving us Currency but not an obvious military gateway techs like Maths and Monarchy. I'd liek to know for sure, which is why I'm the proponent of the Philo-MC trade idea.

[Zeviz]

I agree with Soooo, if they get a message like this, they are likely to attack while we are weak.

[mostly-harmless]

Ok, fair enough. Majority is against sending the message.
If Templars are already snuggling up to Imperio, they will know about their plans (inclusive espionage actions). If not they will monitor our trade screen I suspect and see our metal being disconnected.

So they already know, we are weakened.

mh

[Sullla]

I have to say, I'm glad we didn't send that message asking for iron or copper. Anyway, here's a post from the main turnplayer thread:

In terms of trade, the KEY tech is Metal Casting. And unfortunately, the ONLY team that can trade it to us is Templars. I was surprised to see their diplo thread sitting pretty inactive over the past few days. Look, Banana is not the issue here. If we get Metal Casting, we fling them Aesthetics + Literature + Monarchy + Horseback Riding for Machinery... hopefully only three of those techs, but we can send ALL of them if necessary. The problem is the TEMPLARS!

We absolutely must diplo-blitz them right now and get them to trade us that tech. Offer them Aesthetics + Literature + HBR + wines, whatever it takes. Metal Casting is the critical bottleneck tech, which springs us out of the hole we're in. We make it absolutely clear to them that there can be no normal trade relations between us if they refuse to trade us a tech that they sent to everyone else. Let's stop going around in circles and get a deal done!

THIS is what we need to focus on! Lie, cheat, steal - say and do whatever we have to in order to get them to trade us Metal Casting. I'd float some BS nonsense about how we need to work together with Banana against PAL and Imperio, and we can't do that while they continue to embargo a tech against us. Float the idea of sending them HBR tech along with wines, plus Aesthetics for the tech. We reiterate that in a "No Tech Brokering" game, embargoing a tech against one civ while trading it to the others is a serious diplo action, and we need to normalize trade relations in order to move forward to work together. Plus, by trading them HBR, we tell them that this is a sign of our good will and peaceful intentions, by giving them a valuable military tech.

Like I said before, I don't care how it happens, just get this deal done! Then we can get Machinery from Banana, and start rolling out some maces.

[Swiss Pauli]

Chase up sent:

Hi Aidun,

It's been a long time since we sent you this message, so we would to receive a reply from you soon. I'm sure that you agree that these long delays are to our mutual disadvantage.

Best Regards

Swiss

[ruff_hi]

We really should get a bunch of contact points for this team and start bouncing information to them. For example ...

Hoho Haha. The Currency vs Aesthetics deal went ahead! Seriously, what is Imperio up to?

I bet this is going to piss Templars off if they made a deal not to trade with us. We should start poisoning some of the relationships (as we see it) that seem to be taking place.

[Sullla]

Oh yes indeed, Ruff! Hehe, Imperio's insane actions are just making this TOO easy for us. Here are some contact points to think about putting into a message:

- Imperio just cut us a tech deal, so don't put any faith in their word. They are only interested in helping themselves out, plus they're the score LEADER in this game! (Templars will probably actually believe that means something, while we all know PAL is much more dangerous.)

- Imperio and PAL are the leaders of this game; our teams need to work together to catch them, along with Banana too now that we can all trade together, blah blah. For the record, I don't think we have any real long-term interest with these teams, but for now, it definitely suits our purpose.

- Refusing to trade our team Metal Casting, which was traded to everyone else, is a serious penalty in a No Tech Brokering game, and is NOT conducive to friendly relations.

- We are offering a lot for Metal Casting. A whole lot... Templars are getting the better end of the deal by far. (I am assuming we offer them Aesthetics/Literature/HBR if they are still reluctant).

- Not to mention sending them a wines resource for free as well, in the hopes of turning that into a wines for sugar deal down the road. More beakers PLUS wines, and oh, it looks like Jerusalem could use some additional happiness, would you like to let your cities grow to a larger size so that the prayers of the faithful can sound up to the heavens?

- Mention NAP again, that we appreciate having one in place until T124 and would like to extend it further. Mention (again, because these guys are a little slow) that we are happy that a border agreement has been worked out between our sides, and hope that we can achieve a lasting peace.

How's that? We should be leaning on these guys hard, because Imperio is assuredly going to launch a (likely ill-planned) attack on us soon, and Templars have the potential to cause us serious damage if we don't improve relations.

[Dreylin]

I'm ready to have a go at this, but won't have an opportunity to do so until this evening (+6hrs). Maybe we should send a quick message to them saying basically:

"Just a quick FYI, you've probably noticed that Imperio has not themselves placed a trade embargo on us, as they agreed to trade us Currency. In that light, the block on trading MC only hurts both our teams, and is only in Imperio's interest. We are prepared to make a significant offer, should you be willing to reconsider your position. We should have a full Alliance proposal to you later today"

Since they clearly fear Imperio, we could say that we are ready to hold the trade until Imperio have commited their forces against us - and therefore wouldn't be able to wage a two-fronted war. If Imperio declare on t120, we get MC on t121 and Mach on t122, that would still be in time to be impactful in the conflict. We could even go so far as to promise them Imperio's South if they are willing to join us....

[Swiss Pauli]

I think Templars need more of an arm around their shoulder ('who's a brave Knight, then?') than us leaning on them ('cmon you buncha lousy tin cans, give us MC!').

Here's how the MC deal went down:

The key event of the turn was Templars discovering Metal Casting, then trading that and Monotheism to Imperio for Monarchy and Mathematics.

Imperio wouldn't give us either of those techs, but has just handed us Currency. It looks more than ever that this was a tech-specific embargo, and Templars have come out by far the worse off as their investment in MC was relatively so much greater.

If we want to coax Templars into trading us MC, and face the wrath of Imperio, then we'll have to offer them a damned good price Them admitting that they miscalculated their deal doesn't do us any favours. What we have to try to wheedle out of them is the sanction they face if the make the trade.

[Dreylin]

Oh I fully agree that we should be offering them the kitchen sink if we have to! I was really suggesting that we knock out a brief missive ASAP, and then spend some time crafting a full-on response as Sullla suggested.

[Dreylin]

We have two main options for our approach to the Templar e-mail:

a) "Arm round the shoulder" - nurse them gently around to our POV

b) "Slap on the back of the head" - wake up and smell the roses

I would love to write b), but I think the consensus is for a)...?

[Dreylin]

Honoured Knights Templar,

We wonder if you had reached consensus on our NAP extension proposal. In the absence of contact to the contrary, and per that agreement, we consider the NAP extended to T134. This is of joyous news to our citizens, especially in light of recent acts of aggression from our other neighbours.

Imperio have proven most inconsistent in their dealings with us; one minute we are close trading partners and valued allies; the next, they are enacting military trade embargos upon us and asking our allies to do the same. You may already be aware that their perfidious spy has sabotaged our source of metal, and have noted with discomfort as the first War Elephants emerge from their cities. We have sent repeated emissaries to their lands seeking an extension of the NAP agreement which recently expired; all returned without gaining audience with their fickle Rulers.

We were as surprised as you must be that they have now broken their own embargo to trade to us the extremely economically important Technology of Currency, however we are still expecting, and preparing for an attack to come as soon as the NAP “cooling off” period expires.

With your aid, we have been able to meet the lost tribe of Bananas and initiated diplomatic contact. They are as worried as we are by the rise of Pal and the premature perishing of the Rabbits, and are interested in cooperating with us against the Titans which Pal & Imperio are becoming. We would seek to add Templars to this budding alliance of smaller teams.

We still hope to persuade your noble Order to allow us access to the secrets of Metal Casting. As the only empire now not possessing this key technology, we are willing to offer a substantial deal for its acquisition. In addition to the previously suggested trade of Aesthetics & Literature, we are prepared to add the valuable military technology of Horseback Riding.

Should you fear the wrath of Imperio, know that we stand beside you and will offer aid if asked. If you would be more comfortable waiting until Imperio have shown their intentions by declaring open War upon us – and thus reducing the threat to your border – we are happy to accept this.

Your humble friends,

TeamRB

So I decided to lead off with the NAP; they assumed the original NAP started when they received our proposal, I don't think it's unfair for us to state that we assume the same for our extension proposal ... and it's t114 now!

Blah Blah Imperio suck, but note the possessive of Templars as OUR allies & not THEIR allies.

OK, so they did not help us reach Bananas, but they don't know that.

Beg for MC.

Offer concession to their cowardice ... that last may not be warranted, however aranging the deal for after Imperio attack might be the key to getting them to agree. They can see Imperio building an army, and must be wary of it changing course.

If there's any other specific things we feel need mentioning in this message, I can work on adding them.

[Kodii]

What was the reasoning behind leading them to believe they helped us reach Banana? I feel as if that would almost give them some sort of diplomatic fodder. "We helped you reach Banana, you can return the favour by..."