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  • Zevis's draft, typos corrected, and a few abbreviations written out.
    Dear Sir Aidun,

    Firstly, many thanks for your long and comprehensive reply. It is good to see the growing cooperation between our people, especially in light of recent international developments.

    Recently, PAL and Imperio have been cooperating more closely than ever, and by leveraging their superior land they threaten to run away with the game. The combination of superior land, high-commerce tiles, happiness resources, and key economic techs may soon create an insurmountable tech lead against any civilizations that lack consistent trading partners. While both Templars and Banana have made several prudent trades recently, we feel it's obvious that it will become more and more difficult for the other teams to research useful trading techs in the face of a Imperio/PAL trading bloc. Already PAL and Imperio have swapped to Civil Service and acquired Currency...in fact they traded those two techs between themselves.

    Rather than sit idly by and lose the game, team RB believes that the three other teams who still possess developed empires (namely RB, Templars, and Banana) should work together towards our mutual well-being. As they say, if we do not hang together we shall surely hang separately. On the other hand, 3-way cooperation between RB, Templars, and Banana can keep us all in the game.

    With that in mind, we are wondering if your refusal to trade for Metal Casting is due to lack of interest in techs we have to offer, or if Imperio made keeping Metal Casting out of our hands a requirement for their deals with you. A no-trade clause like this would hurt both of our teams, giving Imperio the only benefit, and is not something we would ever demand from our allies.

    Regarding the NAP; we are certainly pleased to hear that it is already in place, and are eager to knock out the details. Would Templars consider an auto-renewal clause along the lines of the agreement resetting every 10 turns to an expiration 20 turns in the future unless official notification is received from either party? That would prevent us having to ratify a new NAP every couple of weeks, and also provides a 10 turn notice of expiration to both teams. For example, the current agreement is due to expire on turn 124. We propose that if neither team notifies the other of a desire to cancel by turn 114 the agreement renews to turn 134. If notification is received on or before turn 113, the NAP would expire on turn 124 as originally agreed.

    Comment


    • v1.0?

      Dear Sir Aidun,

      Firstly, many thanks for your long and comprehensive reply. It is good to see the growing cooperation between our people, especially in light of recent international developments.

      General Game Commentary
      Recently, PAL and Imperio have been cooperating more closely than ever, and by leveraging their superior land they threaten to run away with the game. The combination of superior land, 'gold and gems' happiness resources, and key economic techs may soon create an insurmountable tech lead against any civilizations that lack consistent trading partners. While both Templars and Banana have made several prudent trades recently (well done, by the way), we feel it's obvious that it will become more and more difficult for the other teams to research useful trading techs in the face of a Imperio/PAL trading bloc. Already PAL and Imperio have swapped to Civil Service and acquired Currency ... in fact they traded those two techs between themselves.

      What do to? Proposal
      Rather than sit idly by and loose the game, team RB believes that the three other teams who still possess developed empires (namely Templars, Banana and us) should work together towards all of our mutual well-being. As they say, if we do not hang together we shall surely hang separately. On the other hand, 3-way cooperation between Templars, Banana and RB can keep us all in the game.

      Seeking Clarity
      With that in mind, we are wondering if your refusal to trade for Metal Casting is due to lack of interest in techs we have to offer, or if Imperio made keeping Metal Casting out of our hands a requirement for their deals with you. Can you shed some light on this situation for us.

      For the record: a 'no-trade' clause like this would hurt both of our teams, giving Imperio the only benefit, and is not something we would ever demand from our allies.

      Non-Aggression Pact
      We are certainly pleased to hear that it is already in place, and are eager to knock out the details of renewal / expiry. Would Templars consider an auto-renewal clause – along the lines of: at 'expiry less 10 turns', the agreement resets to an additional +20 turns unless official notification is received from either party. That would prevent us having to ratify a new NAP every couple of weeks, and also provides a 10 turn notice of expiry to both teams.

      For example: The current agreement is due to expire on t124, however if neither team notifies the other of a desire to cancel by t114, the agreement renews to t134. If notification is received on t113, the NAP would expire on t124 as agreed.

      Regards,

      RB
      Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
      Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
      woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

      Comment


      • great - now we have two v1.0s!
        Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
        Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
        woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

        Comment


        • Haha, nice work both of you. Both are fine - aesthetically I prefer sunrise's version.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by sooooo View Post
            aesthetically i prefer sunrise's version.
            Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
            Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
            woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ruff_hi View Post
              We all have to become thick skinned to play this game Ruff - I know I've shed a few tears at some of the posts

              We should just all be glad we're not playing with the hyper-type-A's over on PAL. One of their members kicked a clanmate out because he was "a cancer to the team" recently

              Comment


              • sure. Better a cancer to the team than a carbuncle on the backside of life (I think an Aussie politician actually called an opponent that (or words to that effect).
                Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                Comment


                • I actually like Ruff's explicit separation / titling of the different sections ... spells things out for them

                  Comment


                  • I still feel that by addressing all the issues at once, we risk a 'Doha-round' failure, where failure to agree on one point will delay, and maybe even derail, the whole process. However, seeing as the team feeling is to cover everything at once, let's decide which one to send and do so today.

                    Comment


                    • We could always stick a note at the bottom saying: "we realise there's a lotcovered in this message, please reply to individual parts to aid speed"

                      Or preferably a better-worded version (not feeling very diplomatic atm)

                      Comment


                      • I like the section divisions of Ruff's version, but Sunrise's looks more like a typical letter, and since Templars like RPing, they might prefer that format. Either way, let's send one of them soon.

                        And it's definitely better to have two copies than 0 copies.

                        Comment


                        • I sent my email.

                          Comment


                          • Thanks.

                            If they don't give any reply within a week, we should probably ask them specifically about a NAP. (Explaining that if a NAP expires without warning, we have to start getting ready for an attack now, which would make the NAP pointless.)

                            Comment


                            • We are still waiting for a reply, right?
                              Should we sent something along the lines:
                              Our relations with Imperio have taken another dip. We ask you, honorable Knight Templars, where you will stand in possible future conflict?
                              To be improved ...

                              mh

                              Comment


                              • Lets do it with some redundancy.
                                Asking PAL for copper gift next turn and asking Templars for copper vs wine as well. If both agree we go for the Templar trade, keeping the PAL option (horses) for later. If only one agrees, we have metal from next turn, which is vital. If they both decline, we are somewhat screwed.

                                Hi Templars,
                                recent aggressive acts from Imperio towards us have left us in need for metal to strengthen our defenses in the Northeast.
                                We offered our civilisation our fine wines in exchanges for your trade goods before. We are now offering you the following deal:
                                RealmsBeyond supplies Templars with Wines in exchange of either Copper or Iron (to be decided by Templars) from Turn 113 onwards.
                                We hope we can count on the Templars support in our struggle to keep the current balance of power on our continent.

                                Independent from the above deal, our offer to reveal to your team the ideas of Aesthetics and Literature in exchange for the knowledge of Metal Casting still stands and is awaiting your approval.
                                The deal would have to stretch over two turns, as you would need to get Aesthetics first before getting Literature.
                                In a gesture of trust and friendship we are offering you Aesthetics now for free if you can guarantee the Literature vs. Metal Casting deal next turn.
                                What do you say?

                                We can't stress enough the urgency of the first deal.
                                So any "fast lane" of our envoys to your ruler is appreciated.

                                TRB
                                mh

                                Comment

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