Team Info and Contacts - Imperio

[sunrise089]

Ok with the second message, not with the first (screenshot) draft.

PS - Imperio's stack (from the Rival Militaries thread) is only scary until we have cats. Specifically, prior to cats we can only attack of our own city with our best defender (the maceman). Post-cats equal number stack are no threat, since with the game's double move rule we're always guaranteed the ability to hit their stack with our cats before they can hit the city.

[Swiss Pauli]

email sent:

Hi Imperio,

We would like to propose a 50 turn NAP from T120 that ends on T170.

We have noticed your military build-up. You will have seen our military increase as well. We have learnt important military technologies, and can now train Macemen. If you attack us, you will not win. We will not win either: in fact, we will both lose because we will get stuck in a 'stalemate'.

We look forward to your answer by the end of T120. If we do not receive your answer by this time then we will assume you are not interested.

Best Regards

Team RB

[mostly-harmless]

Hi Imperio,
are you interested in a new NAP?
Regards
TRB

Yet another attempt.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Yes, we don't seem to have come up with a 'sales plan', but I would wait until T125/6 to send it so that they can see our beefed up defences (mace, jumbo, cat & two more HAs).

[Swiss Pauli]

Proposal:

Hi Imperio,

We see you are still training units, so we are doing the same. We have no problems in keeping up with your military build-up, so we wonder why you are still following this strategy.

You will have noticed that PAL is increasing their technology lead, and they seem likely to win the race to Liberalism whilst we waste our energies on training units.

We have the following proposals for you to consider:

- NAP for 50 turns from T130.

- A trade deal where we learn Philosophy, and you learn Paper. This will give our teams a chance to beat PAL to Liberalism.

We look forward to your answer before the end of T129.

Best Regards,

Team RB

The Philo-Paper deal will be a bit controversial, but I think we need to keep our options open in case PAL decides they don't want to trade us Philo for Eng (due T128).

[Sullla]

Swiss, we have no plans to research Philosophy tech - why would we suggest that to Imperio? If we're going to offer them a trade, let's at least make it Engineering tech for something!

I'm fully on board with the NAP suggested, and making some kind of tech deal seems wise - but I'm just confused by the one you proposed here.

[Swiss Pauli]

We need Philo ASAP, and we have no guarantee that PAL will trade it to us in the short/medium term, so we need to keep our options open. I don't see any problem in backing away from a deal with Imperio (or Templars) given their lack of responsiveness.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

I'm confused. Do we really want to have a NAP for 50 turns with them? I thought we're toying with the idea of attacking in 30-40 turns or so...or do we think it's better to go for Templars instead? My understanding is that it's better to go for the bigger threat firstm, which would be Imperio.

-Kylearan

[sooooo]

I'm not so keen on a 50 turn NAP either. It's probably best to keep our options open.

[Swiss Pauli]

We can go with a 40 turn NAP which would be the same end date as our previous offer.

Bear in mind that we need Nationalism and Gunpowder before starting to draft. Engineering will take 10 turns all told, so we're surely looking at 30 turns or so before we have these techs.

[Sullla]

Swiss, I guess I'm just confused by this latest set of diplo initiatives proposed. I thought our generally-agreed upon plan was to trade Engineering to PAL for Philosophy, Engineering to Banana for Feudalism, and hopefully trade Engineering to Templars for Theology and Drama. I don't recall anyone saying that we planned to research Philosophy ourselves. In fact, since Imperio hasn't really responded to any of our emails in the past three months, we weren't planning on them doing much of anything. Now this email seems to suggest that we start working together with Imperio against PAL! Forgive me, but that doesn't seem to make ANY sense whatsoever.

Honestly, if we're going to work on diplomacy right now, it should be leaning on PAL to trade us Philosophy. I'm just not sure what we're trying to accomplish with this message... Trying again for an NAP seems OK, but no need to reverse our previous tech agreements for no real reason! I mean, it's not like PAL said "no" to our last offer, they just haven't answered us yet. Let's chase them up again with another message before doing anything drastic.

[Swiss Pauli]

Sullla, you don't seem to to have understood that learning Philo is Plan B should PAL turn us down. There's nothing drastic is running Plan B past Imperio and Templars. The problem we have with PAL is that they *must* trust us in order to trade us Philo, whereas Templars very much wanted to trade us MC but had some kind of agreement not to do so. As it comes down to trust, we'll be able to do a lot less persuading with PAL than we did with Templars. Given the lack of responsiveness from Templars and Imperio we need to start down this path sooner rather than later. It's no good finding out in 5 turns that PAL won't trade us Philo, and not having a Plan B lined up as best we can. Don't forget that PAL already turned down Engineering when they had Philo to trade for it.

As to teaming up against PAL, we're dangling a carrot to make Imperio switch away from military to peaceful techs. It's essentially the same diplo double-talk we're making with Banana about having no plans to attack Templars.

[Dreylin]

Do we really want to try for a NAP with Imperio at this point?

Imperio are definitely going to war against someone, and if it's Templars, don't we want to be getting involved?

[Swiss Pauli]

Imperio would be extremely stupid to declare war with Templars if they don't have a NAP with us. We can dogpile Templars in the highly unlikely event that Imperio agrees a NAP with us and goes after Templars (Templars reply to mh completely ignored our short-term NAP offer).

[mostly-harmless]

Cape Town will be on military whether we are going to war any time soon or not. So for us it really makes no difference whether we have a NAP with Imp or not. Better to have options, therefore I vote no NAP.

mh