Team Info and Contacts - Imperio

[Kylearan]

Hi,

sending a stern email sounds good, although I say we should not include any threats in it, like a demand for reparation. No threats will help us look more like an innocent victim of a treacherous aggressor when they declare war, and will make it harder for them to justify the war to the other teams. If we're sending threats they might be used later as an example for deteriorating relations which just *had* to end in war...

-Kylearan

[mostly-harmless]

No threats will help us look more like an innocent victim of a treacherous aggressor when they declare war, and will make it harder for them to justify the war to the other teams.

I understand the reasoning, but then who will care whether we played it honorable or not?
Rabbits are stew.
Banana has yet another guy to try and sort out the mess.
Templars are likely already siding with Imperio.
PAL will do whatever is necessary to win the game.

A demand for reparation is not a threat, its simply a demand to pay for the damage they have done.

mh

[Kylearan]

Hi,

who will care whether we played it honorable or not?
Rabbits are stew.
Banana has yet another guy to try and sort out the mess.
Templars are likely already siding with Imperio.
PAL will do whatever is necessary to win the game.

I see your point, but are we so sure about an Templar-Imperio "alliance" yet? (That's a genuine question, not a rhetorical one) Maybe an unprovoked attack on us might let the roleplaying Templars to reconsider.

A demand for reparation is not a threat, its simply a demand to pay for the damage they have done.

You're right it's not really a threat, but it might be presented as one later by a skillful diplomat (not necessarily by Imperio themselves, if they let our mail slip).

Arguing from a more practical position: How are the chances that they actually comply and send us cash? Nil, I'd say. So why risk it?

-Kylearan

[mostly-harmless]

Arguing from a more practical position: How are the chances that they actually comply and send us cash? Nil, I'd say. So why risk it?

Simply for fun.

mh

[ruff_hi]

My feelings is that we have to let them know that we KNOW it was them that sab our copper and that we have proof to show other teams if it comes to that. Try and get them to stop and think about it before they sab our horses by telling them that the non-passive use of spies is pretty obvious.

[mostly-harmless]

Sounds good Ruff.
Now to phrase this is plain English or Spanish.

mh

[sunrise089]

I reiterate that most of the other teams (especially PAL) have not played honorably and have not suffered the least for it. I think the chances of our reputation being "ruined" to the point of teams declining advantageous trades with us to be about zero. Remember, we're the ones playing honorably and yet Imperio negotiated a trade embargo against us.

Also keep in mind under a war setting this isn't a minor, AI style annoyance sabotage. If they marched in an army of city raider swords right now we would be seriously screwed without axes.

Still, I'm content playing the good guy and offering the trade. My vote however is still to only HOLD the trade until the copper is reconnected. I don't want to even threaten to cancel the trade, but rather make the punishment fit the crime.

[Zeviz]

My feelings is that we have to let them know that we KNOW it was them that sab our copper and that we have proof to show other teams if it comes to that. Try and get them to stop and think about it before they sab our horses by telling them that the non-passive use of spies is pretty obvious.

This sounds like the best option.

[Swiss Pauli]

My proposal:

Hi Imperio,

Thanks for accepting the trade deal. We will ship you Literature on turn 115.

But a word of warning: if you wish to live in peace, do not send spies into our territory to sabotage our resources. If you wish to make war, then do so like real men, not in this cowardly way.

Last sentence is rather OTT, but I'm trying to goad them into a denial that we can forward to Templars to prove Imperio is untrustworthy.

[sunrise089]

Ok Swiss, I'm cool with that if you think it may actually pay diplo dividends with the Templars.

[Sullla]

I'm not entirely sure, Swiss... the goal of this message is to prevent them from sabotaging our horses, and I'm not sure that this does that. I do think that a short and simple message is the way to go, especially given the language barrier, but I don't think insulting Imperio and calling them dishonorable is going to get the result we want. If anything, they might respond even more aggressively with their spies!

We do need to get moving on this (~10 hours remaining on the turn), but maybe we can take another shot at wording this one?

[Swiss Pauli]

We can ditch the last sentence, of course, but I don't see how we can prevent them from sabotaging our horses if that's what they want to do.

[Sullla]

Well, maybe replace the last sentence with this then:

Hi Imperio,

Thanks for accepting the trade deal. We will ship you Literature on turn 115.

But a word of warning: if you wish to live in peace, do not send spies into our territory to sabotage our resources. We will regard any future sabotage as any act of war, and a violation of our NAP.

Thoughts?

[Kylearan]

Hi,

I like Sulla's last version. It tells them we know about the sabotage, warns them about consequences of future spying acts, but doesn't call them names or provoke them in any other way. We show strength and that we won't let bully us around without bringing in more aggressiveness.

-Kylearan

[Swiss Pauli]

Whilst I'm not defending my provocative text, I don't think Sullla's version is that sensible either: our NAP has expired, and we're in the cooling off (or should that be heating up?) phase. If we consider sabotage an act of war then it's logical that we take military action as a result, and not doing so will demonstrate our weakness, not our strength.

Keeping only the first sentence, with it's vague threat, tells them we won't be bullied but leaves us more room for manouevre.