Letter of JEFF BRIGGS to the CIV COMMUNITY

[woody]

Well, I've become rather disenchanted with Firaxis, because of the way they've continually released horrible games and patches.

I am a big supporter of Civ3 1.29f, and think the game is very well-designed and relatively bug-free, and definitely worth the money. But the process getting there was long and frustrating, and now they're doing it all over again with PtW!

Has Firaxis not learned a single thing?

I was always a big supporter of Civ3, and fought against the "whiners" that complained about things like spearmen beating tanks, which is clearly part of the game. But, I'm afraid, I can't stick up for the way Firaxis has released these bug-ridden games and patches.

[MarkG]

i confess. i'm guilty. i made people read this thread.

[Tiberius]

@MariOne:
You praised Firaxis for good PR and decent followup. This part was indeed on topic, but I said nothing about it, my words had nothing to do with it so your quote is meaningless.

For the rest of your post:
"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by woody
Well, I've become rather disenchanted with Firaxis, because of the way they've continually released horrible games and patches.

I don't like buggy games, either. But tell me: would you have prefered to have a 1.29 civ released in october 2002 instead of those 9 months of playing? I don't think so.

Btw, Civ3 wasn't horrible, even the unpatched one. The game mechanics was the same. It was the same game with some annoying bugs. It wasn't unplayable or horrible.

Now don't get me wrong. I'd be happy to have a bugless, perfect game out of the box. But since this is very unlikely to happen, I'm happy that they continuously support their products.

[woody]

Originally posted by Tiberius
I don't like buggy games, either. But tell me: would you have prefered to have a 1.29 civ released in october 2002 instead of those 9 months of playing?

I'd have preferred to wait until at least Feb. 2002, which is when they released the first patch. The game was playable after that, although still very buggy.

Okay, so I've learned my lesson. I will never again pre-order a Firaxis game, nor buy it until it's been out several months and the bugs are fixed. Of course, by then, I may not bother picking it up at all.

Is that really the message that Firaxis wants to give to its customers?

It's also difficult to tell how unplayable a game is by just reading comments. You tend to get extremes, from whiners who complain about everything because they suck at the game, to fan-boys who would praise a smelly bowel movement from Sid. So, in the future, I'll lean on the side of caution before buying any Firaxis game, even if it gets good reviews.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Civ3 v1.29f is a fantastic game. But, getting there left me with too many doubts about the competence of Firaxis staff.

[Comrade Tribune]

'We certainly regret that PTW’s debut was less than what people have come to expect from Firaxis Games.'

>>hysterical laughter<<

My, some people have a weird sense of humour...

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by MarkG
i confess. i'm guilty. i made people read this thread.

AFAIK you are twice guilty: you also manage this whole hell of a site, the Apolyton, with some diabolic help from DanQ and many others fallen angels... usually a job well done, IMHO

[centrifuge]

I'm happy to have read this letter, from Firaxis... It brought to mind another letter from Activision about CTP2. The difference is that the contents of the letters are polar opposites... Firaxis pledges support to make it a higher quality game, while Activision simply said "okay see ya later." Kudos to Firaxis

[Wittlich]

I concur with your analysis centrifuge. I too believe that Firaxis will not follow in the same foot steps as Activision.

[OzzyKP]

la la la

I remember lots of upset fans last year when Civ3 came out, and gee more upset fans now that they release PTW (which should have been with the original). Oh well, nothing is changing for Firaxis.

After however many months since the game came out, I never bought it, never played it, never even seen someone else play it....

And I'm just dandy.

[notyoueither]

Trolls out forrrr-ever!

[Chronus]

Until I see a Firaxian own up to that, I will keep in mind that it came through (from?) Infogrames.

The quote was from Infogrames . . . it's on the opening news board.

Who made the quote wasn't my point or concern . . . I just thought the statement was a comical example of absurd irony.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


I hold the opposite viewpoint.

They owe us absolutely nothing. If we don't like their games we don't buy them. If you bought Civ3 or PTW and don't like it then return it to the shop for a refund. That is your right as a consumer.

Nobody is forcing us to play Civ3 and nobody is forcing Firaxis or Infogrames to keep funding the development team.

That is the old "Pay - and keep your mouth shut" argument. It is totally specious.

We are not walking into an electronics store and buying a new CD player. We have been discussing the Civ games on forums for many years, and user creation and modding has kept the Civ franchise going for a long time.

Beyond that, forums are the ONLY place where we can get accurate and true reviews and comments on a game. We surely can NOT in gaming world Industry reviews which acted as Firaxis shills almost a year ago.

Considering how user effort, discussion, and interest has kept the Civ franchise going, Firaxis owes us a lot more than "if you don't like it don't buy it" nonsense. Same with just giving us a refund. Many people do not want a refund - THEY WANT A GOOD GAME.

After Civ 3, and all its inadequate patches, I knew what a mess PTW was going to be, and I was right. So they did not get my money on that. Seeing the forums and what a mess it is I am not surprised knowing Firaxis.

Firaxis owes us all the courtesy and consideration of doing more than giving us a refund. I will do more than just refuse to buy Firaxis products in the future.

[notyoueither]

You are not owed Civ, Coracle. You, and others like you sound like 6-year-olds who demand moma.

Well, guess what? Grow up. We are not 6 anymore, and moma can't save us from disappointments. Your rights end at the expiry of the return period. Get used to it.

Firaxis owes you squat. You have not spent a dime on PTW. You are a troll, like many of the other trolls who have crawled out of the wood work.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Chronus


The quote was from Infogrames . . . it's on the opening news board.

Who made the quote wasn't my point or concern . . . I just thought the statement was a comical example of absurd irony.

I agree, and I doubt anyone from Firaxis said it. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.