30% Iron Civer Tournament

[Aqualung71]

By the time anyone has 20+ workers to sacrifice in a PBEM game, then it probably no longer matters. In any case, you have to have discovered Sanitation or have build Shakespeare's to use this exploit effectively.

Just the thought of sacrificing that many workers makes me cringe.....particularly in PBEM games when efficient tile improvement against someone who can theoretically do the same, is so important!

[bongo]

The breaking point for this exploit is 10 workers. Below that and the workers cost more shields than your starving specialists will give back to you. Not to mention the pop-points.

I don't mind banning this exploit for the ironciver games. Even though it's use is limited.

How do we word it then? 'Thou shalt not add workers to starving cities when rioting'?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by bongo
The breaking point for this exploit is 10 workers. Below that and the workers cost more shields than your starving specialists will give back to you. Not to mention the pop-points.

I don't mind banning this exploit for the ironciver games. Even though it's use is limited.

How do we word it then? 'Thou shalt not add workers to starving cities when rioting'?

Actually, unless i'm mistaken it's a bit lower than that. Remember, you might be willing to 'sacrifice' shields (ie, lose overall shields) from other cities to increase them at one city- it's a way of getting aroung the "no rushing wonders" rule. Sort of like building a caravan in civ2 - 50 shields in Chicago in exchange for 30 shields in New York on the Hoover Dam, or whatever.

I suggest banning it. It's clearly an exploit to get around certain rules, mostly the "no rushing wonders" rule, regardless of how realistic it is. Otherwise they'd let you poprush a wonder, which is exactly the effect of what you're doing.

Word it as "You may not cause a city to enter disorder with the purpose of adding workers to it beyond its normal limit, nor may you add a worker to a city to cause it to go beyond its normal limit (beyond its food capacity)." I know it's saying it twice, but it's probably a good idea to make both parts crystal clear. It might even be a good idea to put explicitly "You may not do anything that causes a wonder to be built faster than a city can build it through the production of its population, excepting the production of a scientific or military GL. Any other boost of a city's production is considered an exploit", although some people might think that harsh and might interpret it too strictly...

[Paddy]

well I believe it should named after he who found it:

The Worthington Manourve

thus the rule would be:

The Worthington Manourve is banned

[bongo]

Well said Paddy

We don't want to be too harse, we risk banning 'normal' adding of pop as well.

[snoopy369]

True, and that was one of my main concerns. However, it leaves something to be said that there might well be other similar maneuvers, or even very different maneuvers that are designed around one specific goal: rushing a wonder beyond its normal finishing-time, in ways that are not intended in game. Hence my desire for a somewhat less specific 'ban' and for a more general ban, but still one that is adequately specific not to ban legal and valid moves...

Perhaps simply "The Worthington maneuver (speficically taking advantage of city disorder to add population to a city beyond what it normally would be allowed) and any other maneuver specifically designed to work around the prohobition on wonder-rushing shall be banned. Tactics that may skirt close to this rule should be discussed either with the players or a neutral third party beforehand. This is not designed to prevent a player from doing damage to his own city to build a wonder, as that is a legal strategy, nor from adding population to a city in the normal method (worker adding, up to the city's ability to support itself with food), but to prevent using exploits and exploit-like tactics to rush a wonder faster than a city should be able to produce it."

It's very wordy and not simple, but Iron Civer rules are meant to be specific and enforceable. It's better than most US laws by a longshot, and probably less loopholey too

[Aqualung71]

If you consider this to be an exploit and wish to ban it.....then surely it should not apply only to when Wonders are on the build list.

This exploit can be used to rush any building/unit in general (granted....there are other ways to rush non-wonder builds). Should we then not ban its use entirely? It sure is a useful way to get rid of unwanted workers late in the game to reduced your unit support costs!

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Aqualung71
If you consider this to be an exploit and wish to ban it.....then surely it should not apply only to when Wonders are on the build list.

This exploit can be used to rush any building/unit in general (granted....there are other ways to rush non-wonder builds). Should we then not ban its use entirely? It sure is a useful way to get rid of unwanted workers late in the game to reduced your unit support costs!

ahh the look into how a mind works

[snoopy369]

Though you can just disband workers, if you're worried about costs, or add them to other cities - late in the game if you don't have cities that workers can join you have problems.

It's a very hard tactic to use, really, so I don't think it will ever be cost-effective *except* for building wonders ... but you're technically correct, it should be banned in general. It's just cheaper to BUY improvements rather than worker-rushing them, especially when you have to go into anarchy to do it in the first place...

[Rommel2D]

So its pretty unanimous that is an exploit in need of 'fixing'? Is anyone of the opinion that this might be too frivilous to concern ourselves with at this time?

[Aqualung71]

I think I already indicated that I think it's too frivolous. That's my vote anyway

[Rommel2D]

Friends, PBEMers, fellow Apolytonites-
Alexman of the Dutch has joined Aqualung as the second victorious contestant in the Iron Civer Tournament by vanquishing his opponents in Coliseum D. Our scribes have verified the legitamacy of his victory. He may now retire to his gladiator quarters to contemplate his choice of tribes for the final match. A Pangaea for the final conflict has been found and awaits two more champions to join the two confirmed victors in a final showdown...

The Tournament priests have been sent to present him with his spoils- 6 months of the finest Apolyton Plus services.

Now, back to the preliminary carnage!

[conmcb25]

Congrats Axelman

[Aqualung71]

Ummm....have I missed something, or did this happen a month ago?

[Rommel2D]

Due to his mysterious disappearance soon after the victory, it took the tournament scribes a long time to track him down to verify his suitability to continue and to match his sword with the wounds on the corpses.