Making Trade Essential...One Energy + One Metal + One Manufacturing Point =...

[Bender]

This is a fabulous idea! I really don't see how its omission will be beneficial to the game.

Complex Schmomplex...I wants me resources!

[DarkCloud]

Yes, resources would be good for trading and reality in civ 3

[Youngsun]

Lancer has brought up something that I will support fanatically. One thing that I was so frustrated from whole civ series was lousy aspect of international trade and no representation of industry. Actually those resources(wheat/oil)were there from the very beginning but the game did not use them up to their full potential. We don't need to have all the resources and commodities which are used in real life. Those things called "strategic resource" will do job especially oil,iron and coal along with some luxury and food items.

[Roman]

An example of a resource system:

Cost of a phalanx: 20 shields or 10 shields +1 bronze
Cost of a battleship: 200 shields or 100 shields + 2 iron

Basically, having the right resources vastly increases the efficiency of your production, but you are not prevented from building most things by not having the neccessary resources.

For some strategic items you may be forced to buy the resource to build them though.

Eg.
Cost of a nuclear missile: 50 shields + 1 uranium
[This message has been edited by Roman (edited February 14, 2001).]

[Roman]

The above is only to show that a resource system is workable. I am sure Firaxis can devise something better.

[Shadowstrike]

I'm not trying to say that an Imperialism type system is bad, but full blown it is way too complex. Maybe a bit more complex then the CTP2 one, but nowhere close to Imeprilism complexity.

[Fiera]

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 02-14-2001 02:37 PM An example of a resource system: Cost of a phalanx: 20 shields or 10 shields +1 bronze Cost of a battleship: 200 shields or 100 shields + 2 iron

If there is going to be different resources, such as Bronze and Iron, why keep the old shields?

Wouldn't it be nice to build a phalanx with 15 bronze + 10 iron, instead?
[This message has been edited by Fiera (edited February 14, 2001).]

[Roman]

Fiera, that's what I would prefer your fullblown system too. I was merely trying to show how a resource system could work by increasing efficiency of production to counter the suggestions that such a system must neccessarily be overcomplicated.

[monolith94]

You guys are talking about how you only need metal and energy I'm assuming the stuff generated by roads, right? Like, the two arrows, or basically the trade stuff right?

Because I was thinking, why not assign labor points. . . You can have all the metal you want, but if you don't have the man power it aint gonna get made. Maybe you could even make a special citizen unit that instead of generating luxuries (like an elvis), it would generate labor points. Basically taking your workers off the fields and putting them into the city, doing construction work! You could do that to build stuff faster. . . What do you guys think?

[Cyclotron]

No resources, guys. Shields represent literally the raw production power of your city, meaning the effect of your factories, power plants, mills, etc. The reason resources don't work is because that isn't what shields represent. I really don't understand in gameplay terms how resources would do anything but mire up the game. Besides, what resources would you use? From age to age there are hundreds of commodities you would have to have, unless you used some fallacious umbrella commodity like "fuel" or "metal" or something.

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"Any shred of compassion left in me was snuffed out forever when they cast me into the flames..."
- Marsil, called the Pretender

[Youngsun]

cyclotron7

quote: commodity like "fuel" or "metal" or something.

My original thought was like that but wouldn't that be fun? I would feel excited to have "crude oil" and "iron ore" than "fuel resource" and "heavy metal". That's CivIII trends as well(F-15 rather than jet-fighter or panzer-tank rather than WWII era tank)If we sort out very basic and crucial resources for industrial production things don't have to be so messy.

Production Resources
Wood-Basic~
Stone-Basic~
Clay-Baisc~
Copper-Primary Ancient~Supplmentary Modern
Iron-Supplementary/Primary Ancient ~ Primary Modern

Energy resources
Wood-basic~
Coal-Primary Industrial
Oil-Primary Modern
Uranium-Primary Modern

Precious metals
Gold/Silver
Gem

Food items
Wheat
Dairy

That's all I can think of so-called crucial resources and that's enough to simulate reasonable international trade based on good market system.

monolith94

quote: Because I was thinking, why not assign labor points. . . You can have all the metal you want, but if you don't have the man power it aint gonna get made. Maybe you could even make a special citizen unit that instead of generating luxuries (like an elvis), it would generate labor points. Basically taking your workers off the fields and putting them into the city, doing construction work! You could do that to build stuff faster. . . What do you guys think?

What a great idea!
monolith94 put more of your ideas on that matter I'm very positive about this! Is this beginning of new "labour class" from plain conventional city classes?

entertainers: up hapiness
scientists: up research points
Taxmen: up city revenue
labours: providing labour points?(maybe after the discovery of Industrialization-by replacing obsolte craftsmen from Ancient era)
any more?
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited February 15, 2001).]

[Lancer]

I'm liking these ideas, great stuff here guys! I feel like this thread is hitting critical mass, so I'm just going to watch you guys turn it all into something real.

I'm reading every word of every post, thriving on it!

[Roman]

If the resource system is to be included in Civ3 I feel that the random seed function from Civ2 must dissapear and instead when producing maps in the map editor, we ought to be able to place the resources ourselves.

[Fiera]

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 02-15-2001 05:56 AM If the resource system is to be included in Civ3 I feel that the random seed function from Civ2 must dissapear and instead when producing maps in the map editor, we ought to be able to place the resources ourselves.

Yes, Roman, that's a must. The random seed function was weird and useless for scenario building...

Besides, I like the labour workers idea very much. It would be very realistic and it wouldn't really overcomplicate the game, since it would work pretty much like scientists/tax collectors/elvis...

Brilliant!

[Cyclotron]

I would like to announce that although I have for some time been an opponent of individual resources, I have decided that some as a supplement of shields is a GOOD IDEA and should be in Civ3.

Roman's idea struc me as the best, because you could still build everything with standard shields. You would still be using shields but would not be tied down by needing certain resources.

I would propose that all trade goods also be resources; as to not overcomplicate the matter. If a city was being traded/ was currently using a commodity necessary for building (industrial commodity) they would be able to build up this commodity and thus recive discounts on buildings and units.

For example: CycloCity has a shield production of 15, is currently mining coal (1 per turn) and is trading with another city for iron and silk.

Let's say a heavy cruiser costs 250 shields. Normally, it would take me 14 turns to build it. But, what if its price was:

HEAVY CRUISER: 250 shields
3 iron: -75 shields
2 coal: -25 shields

If I had previously saved up the coal and iron I was getting for a few turns, I could get a heavy cruiser for only 150 shields in 10 turns.

Other comodities, like silk, would be non-industrial. These would not be used for building but instead just trading.

I like this idea. How about you guys?

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"Any shred of compassion left in me was snuffed out forever when they cast me into the flames..."
- Marsil, called the Pretender